BLOOD ON THE SHARROW: BALLAD OF A POLICE SHOOTING IN BELMONT SHORE
By Theo Douglas
More than two years have passed since Ernest Raymond Rodriguez’s first-ever night of drinking in Belmont Shore ended with him being shot five times by homegrown Long Beach Police Department officer Jonathan Steinhauser. Sometimes that’s hard to believe.
There’s no quibble with the time line. Beginning with a pre-dawn post on LBReport.com that broke the story, every news account, police report and court document associated with the incident have agreed on the date: May 28, 2009. It’s an undisputed fact.
That’s significant, because there still aren’t many of them—undisputed facts, that is—and that’s the aspect of this incident that is hard to believe. When it happened 26 months ago, citizens were advised to hold their questions and reserve their judgement during the separate investigations by the LBPD and Los Angeles District Attorney that are standard with officer-involved shootings—the implication being that when the truth were found it would be shared.
After all that, however, we still haven’t been told what happened the night a police officer answered a drunk-and-disorderly call in the city’s swankiest restaurant/bar-and-retail district and gunned down the unhappy customer. Our questions, whether pertaining to the nuts-and-bolts of this case or the broader issues they raise for the City of Long Beach, have gone unanswered.
Did Ernest Raymond Rodriguez—a man with no police record, who was visiting the Jersey Shore of Long Beach for the first time—really need to be shot five times?
Did the escalating tensions in Belmont Shore, where long-complaining residents were so angry and frustrated by the behavior of Second Street bar patrons that they had begun posting videos on line of the closing-time fights and public urination—influence what happened between Rodriguez and Steinhauser?
Is there a pattern or culture of excessive force by Long Beach Police Department? This question has been raised more frequently since the Rodriguez shooting, which was followed a few months later with the fatal December 2010 shooting death of 35-year-old Douglas Zerby—also in Belmont Shore, also at the hands of Long Beach police—while he sat on a friend’s front porch, fiddling with a water nozzle that LBPD spokespersons said resembled a handgun. In May of this year, LBPD officers who said they were responding to an anonymous report of domestic violence, sprayed bullets into the central-city apartment shared by Jonathan Cabrera and Elizabeth Bustamante. Cabrera was wounded in the torso and arm but is recovering.
Meanwhile, in early August 2011, the most up-to-date information we have about the Rodriguez-Steinhauser altercation is the same skeletal chronology that authorities sketched for us in late May 2009: A man patronizing Belmont Shore bars argues with his girlfriend after a few drinks; breaks some store windows, runs away, voluntarily returns to the scene after being chased, caught, calmed and convinced by security guards. He waits not far from the broken window for a police officer, whose arrival ignites a struggle that—one more time—ends when the officer fires five bullets into his body.
Oh, and then there’s this, just in: the lawsuit that Ernest Rodriguez filed last year against the City of Long Beach, the Long Beach Police Department and officer Jonathan Steinhauser comes before Judge David O. Carter in United States District Court on Aug. 8 (that’s this Monday).
LITTLE HAS BEEN HEARD from Rodriguez, at least publicly. An investigation by GreaterLongBeach.com—consisting of some interviews and a review of various legal documents–has flushed out a few small facts: he is still recuperating, and the process has been slow … and not only physical.
When Rodriguez was finally able to get about with a walker, he made his second trip to Belmont Shore. During a slow, painstaking trip down Second Street, he apologized to local merchants—including employees of Sweet Jill’s Bakery, where he’d smashed a window with his hand following an argument with his girlfriend on the night he made so much trouble.
In an April 2011 deposition, Rodriguez described those apologies as “… something I just—I had to do.” He added, “It was like a personal thing.”
Being shot multiple times is not something everyone recovers from. Rodriguez is still working on it.
“Rodriguez has sustained nerve damage. He has tingling and pain in his extremities,” said one of his attorneys, Tyler Dowdall, of Sayre & Levitt in Santa Ana, adding that there’s no telling how long this will last.
It wasn’t only Rodriguez’s body that took a hit: his criminal record suffered too—that is, now, he has one. His previously clean slate now features a no-contest plea to one non-strike, felony count of resisting an executive officer. He is on three years felony probation.
THE DEPOSITION is part of Rodriguez’s lawsuit, which will begin with a motion by the City of Long Beach for summary judgment—that is, to decide whether the case has any “trialable issues,” and whether it should continue to jury trial this fall, or be dismissed. Naturally, the City’s position is that the case should be dismissed.
“The evening of May 28, 2009, was not a good night for Ernesto Rodriguez,” begins the City’s introduction to its motion—a point on which both sides might conceivably agree. No matter whose version of events you believe, there’s no denying that within just a few hours, Rodriguez went from celebrating one of life’s milestone events—the graduation of his girlfriend, Bridgette Molina, from Long Beach State—to being critically injured.
The couple started the night in Huntington Beach, with drinks at BJ’s Restaurant and Brewhouse, then decamped to Belmont Shore.
“I think it was just like a last-minute thing,” Rodriguez said in his deposition, adding that he’d never been to Belmont Shore before. “We didn’t plan a certain bar or lounge.”
Their first stop was Shannon’s Bayshore. In his deposition, Rodriguez says he drank one 12-ounce beer. They then walked west on Second Street for what Rodriguez estimates was “about five minutes,” ending up at … well, wherever it was, Rodriguez drank and argued over a woman who’d asked Rodriguez “if me and her were together or not,” then left.
But what bar was it? This piece of information is important to the back story—the controversy that was raging in 2009 over rowdy bar patrons, who Belmont Shore residents claimed were routinely overserved by permissive and greedy bar owners. Speculation after the shooting was that Rodriguez had been thrown out of Legends earlier that night. Rotondo has emphatically denied that Rodriguez ever visited the bar that night, and court records … well, here’s an excerpt from the deposition.
Q: The color of the door? Whether there were windows? Bricks in front of it? Anything? [Legends has windows, overlooked by green awnings and lots of brick.]
Rodriguez: I would say yes.
Q: What do you remember about the front of the bar?
Rodriguez: I remember it was—it was a real small location.
Q: It’s west of Shannon’s?
Rodriguez: Yes. [Legends is not small, but it is west of Shannon’s Bayshore.]
Q: Was it like a sports bar? Was it like an old-fashioned bar? An Irish Pub?
Rodriguez: It seemed maybe kind of like a dive bar.”
So … was it Legends? When Rodriguez and Molina left the bar, still discussing the woman who’d talked to him, he struck a window at Sweet Jill’s—three doors west of Legends—breaking the glass and cutting his hand. Employees from Legends, including Rotondo, himself—brought Rodriguez back to the closest intersection, Second Street and Covina Avenue, to await the police.
That’s where Rodriguez was—waiting, the cut on his hand still bleeding—when Long Beach Police Officer Jonathan Steinhauser arrived.
THIS IS WHEN Rodriguez’s complaint for damages—an unspecified amount of money—for violation of his federal civil rights begins. Rodriguez’s attorney alleges that Steinhauser “and/or other officers or individuals employed by Defendants shot [Rodriguez] without legal cause or excuse.”
The attorneys also allege police “made an unreasonable seizure” of Rodriguez, “violating his rights under the Fourth and Fourteen Amendments to the … Constitution, and subjected him to summary, cruel and unusual punishment in violation of the Eighth Amendment.”
(The Fourth Amendment is part of the Bill of Rights, and it guards against unreasonable searches and seizures. The Fourteenth Amendment offers due process and equal protection to all people regardless of race, color, etc. The Eighth Amendment—another in the Bill of Rights—prohibits the government from imposing cruel or unusual punishments.)
The complaint further alleges that “[excessive] force was used to injure Plaintiff;” that Rodriguez was “shot and seriously injured by Defendants without justification, cause or excuse;” and that the defendants “… had ample and reasonably sufficient time and opportunity to so intervene and prevent the shooting … .”
Long Beach Deputy City Attorney Monte Machit, who represents all defendants in the case—that’s Steinhauser, the City, and the Long Beach Police Department—denied the allegations in a conversation with GreaterLongBeach.com.
Steinhauser, presented a different, albeit brief, portrait of what took place that night. He said he responded to a vandalism call at Sweet Jill’s, and was flagged down by someone who identified Rodriguez as the person who had broken the window.
Although Rodriguez was waiting for the police with a group of people, Steinhauser’s evaluation of the situation he was entering was rather telling. He revealed it during a declaration made as part of the City’s response to the lawsuit.
“I observed Rodriguez and judged that he outweighed me by approximately 100 pounds,” Steinhauser said in his declaration. “Because Rodriguez had not yet been searched and because other persons were present who might be affiliated with Rodriguez, I considered Rodriguez to be a threat to my safety and possibly the safety of others. Based on my training and experience as a police officer, I believed that Rodriguez would be easier to control seated and handcuffed.”
A questioner at the deposition asked: “ … it sounds like you’re going to handcuff him before you ask him whether he’s the one that broke the window; is that right?”
“Yes,” Steinhauser responded, noting that Rodriguez hadn’t been searched, and that he wanted to “handcuff him, and then deal with the rest of it.”
Steinhauser stayed on this point, emphasizing it.
“Once again, I wanted to take control of him,” Steinhauser said.
Had this happened—and, hypothetically, had Steinhauser been able to control the situation that night and investigate his way—the evening could have ended much differently.
A questioner at the deposition asked, “ … if he [Rodriguez] had said that he had broken the window, would you have released him at that point in time?”
“Probably would have issued him a citation and unhandcuffed him and released him at the scene,” Steinhauser responded.
But that’s not how it happened.
“THE VERY FIRST THING HE SAID to you was ‘Sit down’?” a questioner at the deposition asked Rodriguez.
“Yes,” Rodriguez responded.
But Rodriguez did not sit down.
Dowdall, his attorney, explains: “Mr. Rodriguez did not comply with the command to sit down because there was insufficient space between the police car and the curb to sit down.” And then explains further: “Additionally, Mr. Rodriguez had voluntarily walked to the corner and waited for approximately 10 minutes for the officer to arrive. He intended to assume responsibility for the broken window; there was no need to sit him down and cuff him.”
After more commands from Steinhauser to sit down, and more refusals by Rodriguez, Steinhauser said he asked the gathering crowd to step back, then drew his baton and again ordered Rodriguez to sit on the curb.
When Rodriguez did not comply, Steinhauser struck him at least twice with his baton. At this point, Rodriguez reached out and took the baton away from the officer so that he would not be struck again.
Rodriguez immediately dropped the baton, say his attorneys.
But the City of Long Beach’s attorneys assert that Rodriguez held onto the baton, and in fact, appeared to be ready to use it on Steinhauser. This, they assert, is what prompted Steinhauser to draw his weapon and shoot Rodriguez five times.
“What we’re arguing,” Machit said, “is that the officer used reasonable force.”
REASONABLE VS. UNREASONABLE FORCE. This could be the central issue when Rodriguez’s lawsuit arrives before Judge Carter to face that summary judgment motion on Aug. 8.
Did Steinhauser and members of Long Beach Police Department—and by extension, the City of Long Beach—deprive Rodriguez of his civil and constitutional rights by using unreasonable force, on the night of May 28, 2009? Or does Rodriguez’s no-contest plea to the charge of resisting an order from an executive officer render the question moot?
The City’s position, naturally, is that it does.
“If the case goes to trial, that’s what we believe the evidence will show—that Mr. Rodriguez was a threat to Officer Steinhauser,” Machit said, asserting that a favorable ruling for Rodriguez in this case would negate the earlier no-contest plea. “A conviction by a plea is no different than a jury verdict. You’re just admitting that you’ve violated the law,” Machit said.
David A. Dusenbury, a former Long Beach Deputy Chief of Police, disagrees; he’s now an expert witness for Rodriguez.
“Officer Steinhauser’s use of the police baton and his firearm against the person of Ernest Rodriguez was not objectively reasonable,” Dusenbury is quoted as saying, in a declaration he made in June from Bend, Oregon. Steinhauser “never warned Ernest Rodriguez” before firing his weapon, Dusenbury said.
“Officer Steinhauser fired immediately after stepping back from Ernest Rodriguez,” Dusenbury said, opining that Rodriguez “had the right to use reasonable force to resist the excessive force used by Officer Steinhauser.”
Did he? On Aug. 8, that question will go before a judge.
Oh, and one more thing: The City contends that there was, in fact, enough space on the curb for Rodriguez to have sat there, too.
















88 Comments
….”the Jersey Shore of Long Beach”….
Hilarious!
cool photograph too.
I think this was a very comprehensive, if slightly slanted, summary of this incident and the current challenges that surround it.
I think the City and the Police Department should be much more forthcoming than they sometimes are with any dispositions that are rendered by internal Shooting Review Boards or independent investigations conducted by the District Attorney’s office.
If such investigations are still in progress in this case, I think it is past time that they be completed and their conclusions made public.
Randomly destroying property, refusing to comply with a lone police officer’s orders, then relieving that officer of his baton? Do you think this is all a game, Mr. Rodriguez? You think the rules are that the officer should wrestle with you on the ground by himself, while an anonymous crowd roots for a favorite? Maybe one or two people helping you out, if you start losing? Or cornering the officer after you get his baton?
Is that the game, Mr. Rodriguez?
The officer is an agent of the state. When an officer gives you a direction, and you start “disarming” him, you’re an enemy of the state, under those circumstances, and you deserve what comes.
The next time you disagree with an officer, you follow his directions, and go after him later in a court of law. You don’t get into a physical altercation with an armed agent of the state. If you do, you’re likely to get shot.
That’s just how we roll in this country, Mr. Rodriguez. That’s how we provide a secure environment for you to get piss poor drunk in, unlike a neighboring country which more likely suits your upbringing.
It may surprise you to learn that shooting a man, under any condition, is a traumatic experience. Officer Steinhauser has suffered enough from this incident. Drop your specious case, and spend your time more fruitfully trying to possibly make something of your sad, ridiculous life, instead of harassing a police officer via shady attorneys in a court of law that wasn’t intended for the likes of you.
The reason none of this information has been shared with the press is because Judge Arthur Nakazato ordered Ernest Rodriguez’s lawyers to not release any of the information at the request of the City of Long Beach. The April 6, 2010 order (below link) claims to be protecting the privacy interests of Officer Steinhauser and other officers involved.
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/cacdce/8:2010cv00271/466721/
http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/cacdce/8:2010cv00271/466721/17/
Why doesn’t the public’s right to information about Officer Steinhauser’s past police history trump his right to privacy? Maybe because Officer Steinhauser is and has been involved in multiple other law suits involving fatalities and civil rights violations, things the Police Department doesn’t want us to know about.
Long Beach Police Officer Jonathan A. Steinhauser, who shot Ernest Raymond Rodriguez, Jr., is the nephew of LBUSD School Superintendent Chris Steinhauser and the son of former Long Beach 5th district Council candidate (April 06) Patrick Steinhauser (see below link).
http://www.lbreport.com/news/oct06/emerson.htm
Officer Steinhauser is a member of a highly influential and political family in Long Beach. No wonder the police department has been doing their best to hide the officer’s name from public view.
Long Beach Police Officer Jon Steinhauser is a Karate Master Black Belt who teaches weapons training to Long Beach Police Officers. Jon Steinhauser specializes in teaching Kendo stick lessons, which is a type of Japanese sword, similar to a police baton. Pictures of Jon Steinhauser teaching these lessons have since been removed from the website of his father’s training facility. However, not before I made copies of them and forwared those pictures to the media.
This begs the question HOW a highly trained Black Belt allowed his police baton to be taken from him.
Below are some remnant links of black belt Jon Steinhauser teaching karate classes, some with a kendo stick:
http://www.socatkda.com/contact.htm
http://www.socatkda.com/gallery/ocfair03/index.htm
http://www.socatkda.com/gallery/ocfair03/ocfair03_2.htm
http://www.socatkda.com/gallery/christmas03/
The police reports to the media claimed Ernest Raymond Rodriguez, Jr. outweighed Long Beach Police officer Jon Steinhauser by over 100 lbs. If so, Mr. Rodriquez must have been about 4 feet thick, because Mr. Rodriguez was also described as being five feet nine inches tall. Check for yourself. Below is the link to his facebook page.
http://www.hs.facebook.com/people/Ernest-Raymond-Rodriguez-Jr/100000096408735
Long Beach police officer Jon Steinhauser is NOT a small man. What the media failed to report is the size of Jon Steinhauser, who is described as 6’2” tall and weighing 180 lbs.
Furthermore, several of the pictures in the previous comments show Jon Steinhauser and his 285 lb all-state football offensive lineman brother (below link) practicing karate together. Like I said, Jon Steinhauser is not a small man.
http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/player-Trent-Steinhauser-9624
http://www.socatkda.com/gallery/miscpic.htm
So how accurate do you believe the police reports to now be in their description of Mr. Rodriguez outweighing Officer Steinhauser by over 100 lbs as justification for shooting him five times?
This may not be an isolated case. Long Beach Police Officer Jon Steinhauser AND the City of Long Beach are currently involved in three OTHER law suits for civil rights violations, one involving a fatality.
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/cacdce/2:2007cv03127/388693/
http://www.law360.com/cases/4ddf78b07b9eb32d9b00000a
http://www.leagle.com/xmlResult.aspx?xmldoc=In%20CACO%2020110419014.xml&docbase=CSLWAR3-2007-CURR
The city has ALSO obtained a judges order to not release any information (the facts) on at least one of these cases.
http://ca.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.20110525_0002617.CCA.htm/qx
There is no way for the public to find out the facts behind any officer involved shooting because that information is blocked at the request of the City and Police Department lawyers. So how is the public to know if there is a rogue cop shooting people in Long Beach? Why should we be expected to trust the Police Department in the wake of the Zerby murder and other recent police shootings?
Three days after Rodriguez was shot 5 times, and before the blood had even dried, the Press Telegram printed an article titled, “No apparent patterns in Long Beach officer-involved shooting surge.”
http://www.topix.com/forum/city/long-beach-ca/TP3Q16PHKVCEG65EB
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:FKgZm1wTbMoJ:www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-200905799/no-apparent-patterns-long.html+%22No+apparent+patterns+in+Long+Beach%22&cd=4&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com
Don’t expect a lot of fair and unbiased reporting out of the Press Telegram.
Mr. Ruehle’s comments are well taken.
Political influence, however, is not the only possible reason that a law enforcement agency might decline to disclose the names of officers involved in shootings. In fact, the department and the city routinely withhold -as a matter of policy and at least initially- the names of *all* officers involved in shootings, whether those officers, or their families, have any perceived political influence or not.
This fact would seem to refute Mr. Ruehle’s apparent implication that the police department attempted to engage in some sort of cover up to benefit Officer Steinhauser or his family in this instance.
The Long Beach Police Department original report to the press indicated Officer Jon Steinhauser was unable to control Rodriguez because he was by himself. However, people living 200 feet from the shooting indicated when, upon hearing the shots, they ran outside and immediately saw the body surrounded by multiple police officers clearing the area.
I arrived approximately 10 minutes after the shooting (I lived 1-block away), after being awoken by the shots. By that time, there was a helicopter and at least 10 police officers and they were beginning to rope off the site and chase away potential witnesses.
30 minutes later, Rodriguez’s body was still on the ground surrounded by police officers and waiting to be loaded on a gurney.
10 mintues later, by now appearing dead, Rodriguez’s body was finally loaded into an ambulance/paramedic unit and sent away. Keep in mind, Fire Station #8 paramedic are only 2 blocks away on 2nd street.
Links to Ernest Raymond Rodriquez law suit against Long Beach Police Officer Jon Steinhauser and the City of Long Beach. The next hearing date is set for August 22, 2011 at 8:30 am in Judge David O. Carter’s United States District Court room 9D in Santa Ana.
http://www.law360.com/cases/4d6e8e86fa708c3a2e000004/dockets
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/california/cacdce/8:2010cv00271/466721/
I was told by a former Legend’s bouncer who was working the night of the shooting that Belmont Shore Business Association President and Legends Owner Gene Rotundo called a meeting of the bouncers and instructed them to say Ernest Rodriguez was not in Legends that night.
I was also told by a patron of Legends bar the night of the shooting that bouncers had escorted Mr. Rodriguez out of Legends prior to the shooting. The patron showed me a picture on his cell phone from inside Legends of Mr. Rodriguez’s body laying in the street surrounded by cops and told me it was the same guy who had been “escorted” out.
Mr. Ruehle’s comments are interesting, if entirely subjective and anecdotal.
Computer-generated timelines surrounding this incident must certainly be available and are no doubt an important part of this investigation. Such timelines are objectively verifiable, admissible in court, and measure time in tenths if not hundredths of seconds.
Hopefully those potential witnesses that Mr. Ruehle claims he spoke with came forward and also shared their perceptions with investigators (rather than only with Mr. Ruehle) so that their observations could be considered and evaluated along with all of the other information, anecdotal, computer-generated, or otherwise.
The police department and the city do more than “routinely withhold -as a matter of policy and at least initially- the names of *all* officers involved in shootings.”
If and when the GLB releases my previous comments from “awaiting moderation,” you will be able to see links to judges orders granted by the City and Police Department preventing ALL facts relating to police officers from being released to the public.
The City and Police Department spend taxpayer’s money to get a Judges order to withhold information from the very taxpayer’s who are paying them.
The public will never hear the FACTS of any Long Beach Police officer involved shooting because the city is able each time to get a court order blocking the information (facts) from being made public. Below are links to two such orders blocking the release of information.
http://ca.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.20110525_0002617.CCA.htm/qx
http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/cacdce/8:2010cv00271/466721/17/0.pdf
Cops and ex-Cops like John B. Greet know only too well these court orders will prevent the facts from ever being made public. That’s why they encourage everyone to withhold judgement while waiting for the facts. That guarantees nobody will ever form an opinion.
seems like mike has put together a fine bit of research, some enterprising cub reporter ought to use it to ask the city some tough questions…
“Officer Steinhauser has suffered enough from this incident”
what about the other incidents? is he suffering from them too? or is it just this incident?
Mr. Ruehle seems to overlook the fact that Steinhauser’s personal and work-related information *was*, indeed, disclosed, and pursuant to a court order. It simply wasn’t disclosed to the general public. It was disclosed to the plaintiff and his attorneys.
Mr. Ruehle seems to believe that he and other members of the general public have an automatic need *and* right to full access to, and review of, the personnel files of public safety employees. Unfortunately our State’s penal code does not support this belief. Is Mr. Ruehle actually presuming to take the court to task for following the law?
I do not agree with Mr. Ruehle’s contention that because a judge properly upholds the confidential nature of public safety personnel files in specific cases, that the the public will never hear the FACTS of any Long Beach Police officer involved shooting. All such public documents are discoverable through due process. This means whomever wants to review them needs to convince a judge that there is a compelling reason to do so. Rodriguez’ attorneys were able to to so.
If Mr. Ruehle feels he has a compelling need to review any officer’s personnel file, he has just as much right as Rodriguez did to retain an attorney and make that case before a judge.
Allen’s comment: “It may surprise you to learn that shooting a man, under any condition, is a traumatic experience. Officer Steinhauser has suffered enough from this incident.”
Are you actually comprehending what you are writing? Are you really chastising Ernest Rodriguez for forcing Long Beach Police Officer Jon Steinhauser to shoot him?
Traumatic??????? How traumatic do you think it is to be the recipient of 5 bullet holes in your body. Suffering?????? Didn’t you read the part about Rodriguez getting around with a walker?
I’ve had my good old times in the past having fun and getting in trouble. But never did I think one of my friends or I would be plugged 5 times by a cop for resisting arrest. Is there no step between obeying a police officer’s command and being killed? In my opinion, Officer Steinhauser has proven himself to be an unacceptable liability to the Long Beach Police Department. He should be terminated immediately. That should save him from future trauma and suffering from having to shoot more people.
Don’t forget about the danger Long Beach Police Officer Jon Steinhauser imposed upon the community. He fired 5 shots at a person on a crowded sidewalk, in front of a crowded bar, with cars driving by on a busy street, a mere 200 feet from a residential area.
How lucky was Officer Steinhauser to not have killed an innocent bystander walking by, driving by or tucking their child in bed?
Furthermore, was Officer Steinhauser suspended during the investigation, or did he return to work his next shift like the Long Beach Cop who mowed down a mother of 5 children in a crosswalk?
The game Long Beach Police Officer John B. Greet plays is to constantly question peoples’ opinion on police misconduct as not being based on fact, encourage people to refrain from drawing conclusions until all the facts are revealed, knowing full well those facts will NEVER be revealed by the city and police, even to impacted families, except in the case of filing a court order.
Everyone is to withhold their judgement until they forget their judgement is being withheld. Eventually, only the families of the innocents killed by the police are left standing in horror that everyone else no longer cares.
Remember back when it happens to your family.
Very interesting stuff. Wish Greater Long Beach had Greater Reach
as perhaps if there was some public outcry there would be some change but don’t expect the tools of the City: Press Telegram; LB Post; etc to cover the story. UNLESS the City is able to get rid of this via the Judge in which case they will run to the Press and boat that they have been exonerated. Besides, no one tells a story quite like Dave … or Theo
Mr. Ruehle’s allegation against me in this latest comment is as false, fraudulent, and misleading as so many of his other comments ultimately prove to be.
Every law enforcement-related death is a tragedy on so many levels. No such death, whether police officer, suspect, or innocent bystander, should ever be forgotten and each should be fully and completely investigated. Where the death is found to be wrongful, the person(s) who caused it should be tried and, if convicted, punished to the fullest extent the law allows.
But Mr. Ruehle conveniently forgets that just as some people can sometimes be erroneously reported to the police as having a gun that turns out to be a hose nozzle, or a cell phone, or a toy so, too, others that the police contact are often *not* reported to have any sort of weapon at all, but they end up shooting the police officer to death or grievously wounding the officer anyway.
Law enforcement is by no means either a closed system or an exact science. Police officers are only human. Regrettably, mistakes are sometimes made. Tragic circumstances compound upon themselves to result in unspeakable and sometimes unintended tragedies on both sides of the badge. The vast majority of cops are well-trained, hard working, consummate professionals doing a very tough job that few people are qualified to do and that fewer still are even willing to attempt.
There is no excuse for police officer misconduct. In all cases each allegation should be fully investigated and, if proven, appropriately punished. But just as the cop killer deserves and *receives* due process, so too, does the cop who kills another person in the line of duty.
Mr. Ruehle takes exception to the fact that a court order is usually required before access to public safety personnel, training, and discipline records can be granted. Mr. Ruehle should take issue with the statutory laws that require this level of confidentiality, and with the courts who follow these laws, rather than with the departments who seek only to follow the laws in this area as well.
Tell that to the family of Kelly Thomas, the handicap person beat to death by police in Fullerton.
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/FBI-Investigates-Fullerton-Police-Over-in-Custody-Death–126439953.html
Tell that to the family of the mother of 5 children that was mowed down in a crosswalk by a negligent and lying Long Beach Cop.
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/oct/19/local/me-lbdead19
Tell that to the Zerby family whose son and brother was murdered under the color of authority by Long Beach Police for the bad luck of holding a hose nozzle
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1338571/Douglas-Zerby-shot-dead-police-holding-GARDEN-HOSE-nozzle-gun-chief-admits.html
I wonder how many more examples from Long Beach I need to link to make my point? I’ve got at least another 40.
John B. Greet is a recently retired Long Beach Police Officer. Need I say more.
Mr. Ruehle I have seen your lists of links and other examples of police abuse, misconduct and deaths caused tragically. They span a period of 40 years. They average about two each year during that time span. They describe acts committed by less than 1/10th of 1 percent of the total number of police employees during that time span, and they represent about .0001 percent of the total amount of police activity during that time same time span.
Given these facts I would willingly tell the victims and the families on your list what I have already said here:
“Every law enforcement-related death is a tragedy on so many levels. No such death, whether police officer, suspect, or innocent bystander, should ever be forgotten and each should be fully and completely investigated. Where the death is found to be wrongful, the person(s) who caused it should be tried and, if convicted, punished to the fullest extent the law allows.”
-and-
“There is no excuse for police officer misconduct. In all cases each allegation should be fully investigated and, if proven, appropriately punished. But just as the cop killer deserves and *receives* due process, so too, does the cop who kills another person in the line of duty.”
Precisely what part of those two direct quotes do you take exception to?
You persist in reminding others that I am a recently retired police officer, as if that somehow undermines my credibility. Should your past criminal history, then, be likewise seen to undermine your own?
Hey Ruehle,
Covina is alot farther away than 2 blks.
Hey Ruehle,
Covina and 2nd is alot farther away from the fire station than 2 blks.
Bill, how much further would you say considering the entire Belmont Shore strip is less than a mile long and Legends is located pretty much in the middle?
Greet, the reason some of the links may span many years is because that is how long many INNOCENT people were wrongly imprisoned for rape and murder by Long Beach cops who were only recently found IN COURT to have coerced witnesses and lied in their testimony sending the wrong innocent person to jail many years ago. It wasn’t until just recently that the REAL bad guy confessed when DNA analysis tied him to the crime.
It bears noting that the City of Long Beach Police Department continued to employ those same lying police officers AFTER the courts found they had lied in court and coerced witnesses leading to false imprisonment of innocent men, in some cases imprisonment of multiple innocent people. Not just once, but multiple times they lied in court.
Meanwhile, the City of Long Beach quietly settled out of court for MANY $million with the multiple innocent people sent to prison by the Long Beach Police Department.
No Mr. Ruehle, the reason your links span many years is because you felt the need to go back that far to find evidence with which to denigrate current and former members of the police department, many of whom have done nothing improper in their entire careers but all of whom you consistently condemn and denigrate.
The only time you ever acknowledge that the majority of LBPD officers are good professional employees is when someone like me points out that you almost *never* do so.Then you grudgingly admit it and then go right back to your habit of impugning and ridiculing the entire LBPD, because on a comparatively rare occasion some current or past employee has failed to uphold his or her oaths to the community and to their profession.
Every single time such a failure occurs, it is despicable and it is wrong and, once proven it should be punished. You and I fully agree on that. But you consistently refuse to stop there and let the facts of past or possibly current misconduct speak for themselves.
No sir, you are not content to make that reasonably and intellectually honest choice. Instead you persist in accusing current employees of misconduct and crimes without offering a single shred of evidence to support your allegations. You denigrate an entire class of good hard-working cops because a tiny percentage of current and former employees failed their test of ethics, and principle, and morality, and professionalism.
This habitually fraudulent practice of yours is as dishonorable as it is dishonest. Every time I become aware that you are pulling your nonsense, I plan to point it out and call you on it.
Don’t like that? Simple….stop doing it.
Rates right up there with the Fullerton Police murder of homeless handicap man, Kelly Thomas. Why can’t we get the FBI to come in and investigate the Long Beach Police Department because the LA District Attorney’s officer is certainly to chummy with Long Beach City Hall?
http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-national/fbi-investigates-california-cops-for-death-of-homeless-man
Why can’t we get someone from Long Beach City Hall or PD, or Fullerton City Hall or PD to take Mr. Ruehle to court for repeatedly publishing in print an untruth (murder) about some of their employees which will do harm to those persons or their reputations, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others?
Mr. Ruehle likes to claim that all he is doing is expressing his opinion. But he does not express these untruths as opinions. He expresses them as established and proven facts. They have neither been established nor proven, and he really should not comment as if they have been, and then run and hide behind his lame “it’s only my opinion” excuse whenever someone calls him on it.
Zerby in Long Beach and Thomas in Fullrton are tragic enough events without people like Mr. Ruehle throwing inflammatory and potentially libelous rhetoric into the discussion.
By the way, the article in Mr. Ruehle’s link is inaccurate. Shawn Nelson is not “of the Fullerton Police Department” he is an Orange County Supervisor.
http://egov.ocgov.com/portal/site/ocgov/menuitem.4981dc715fc6e27bdadd603d100000f7/?vgnextoid=ebbaea093e054110VgnVCM1000000100007fRCRD&vgnextfmt=default
I am not a lawyer, but I would be surprised if there has EVER been a successful prosecution for libel (denigration, slander, what have you) of a citizen who declaratively states his opinion that a yet-to-be-identified police officer in a controversial shooting attracting widespread public interest has committed a murder.
Both the Zerby and the Fullerton incidents are matters of compelling public interest involving public employees in which the public has limited information. In these situations (if I recall my long-ago communications law coursework correctly), the courts overwhelmingly give wide latitude to citizens in stating opinions about the actions of public servants — especially when those public servants are permitted to use deadly force to serve the public.
US, I am not a lawyer either, but I believe there may be a few among GLB’s readership. I would be interested to learn their opinions.
I realize Mr. Ruehle is not naming specific names, but I think he would if he thought he could get away with it, and if he had any way of knowing for certain what the names of the officers in either case are. He is not shy to any degree about naming names when he knows them, whether what he is accusing the named person of has any basis in fact (e.g. when he made a public statement accusing LBPD Sgt. Fernandez of lying [uttering an intentional falsehood] not so long ago.)
I do think that his public statements in this case are definitive enough and specific enough to merit litigation. Regardless of whether he knows specifically who he is referring to when he asserts these accusations as facts, the truth is there *are* specific officers that were involved in both cases, and he is accusing *those specific officers,* in both cases, of murder.
As I have said many times, people are entitled to their own opinions and to voice them wherever they choose. The laws against libel, however, do not address the utterence of opinions but, rather, as I stated, publishing in print an untruth about a person or persons which will do harm to those persons or their reputations, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others.
This is precisely why the news media is so very careful to always include the qualifiers “allegedly” or “reportedly” whenever they report about criminal acts that a person has been accused of but not yet adjudged guilty of in a court of law.
I think Mr. Ruehle’s repeated accusations of murder in these cases, stated as he does…not as opinions, but as facts…seems to fit the bill. I think any of the officers involved in either case has a legitimate grievance against Mr. Ruehle for his public statements due to the manner in which he publishes them and I think each of those officers have a right to a redress of those grievances in a court of law.
Mr. Ruehle’s public statements may very well be proven true one day. But that day is not this day. If at some point any or all of the officers Mr. Ruehle persistently claims have committed murder are actually prosecuted and convicted of that crime then I will proudly stand right there beside him and loudly condemn them for having done so.
Until then, however, I think he should be much more cautious about the manner in which he chooses to frame the public statements he publishes in print.
Mike Ruehle is a tool.
John, I think you might be the only one in the vicinity who considers Mike Ruehle’s statements in this matter to be anything but opinion. You may also be the only one in the vicinity who thinks his opinions are not shared by many in the community, regardless of whether he expresses them here or not.
I think the courts are mindful of the extraordinary power police personnel can exert in our society and are interested in the full airing of public opinion whenever the actions of police officers result in anyone’s death. If this includes people opining that police illegally killed people, I think the courts say to let it pass.
The greater the public interest in a particular event, the greater the leeway given by the courts in timely discussion of the event. The news industry in this country is predicated upon this.
Our society cannot exist without excellent policing. Our society also cannot exist without constant vigilance against people wearing police uniforms who are not mentally, psychologically and emotionally equipped to wear them.
I am also not a police officer, but I believe that not everyone who WANTS to be a police officer is capable of BEING a good one. You must have met colleagues during your time as an officer who you encouraged to change professions before they did some damage of consequence. Didn’t you? How did you handle that?
Anyone interested in asking for justice for Kelly Thomas, supporting the family,and advocating for police reform/training : There is a rally in front of the Fullerton Police Station this Saturday.
Kelly Thomas, homeless and mentally ill was beaten to death by 6 Fullerton Police officers, (video indicates) that Kelly was tasered at least 6 times, held down and beaten while calling out for his Dad to help him. They are predicting a 1,000 people. A couple of weeks ago there were less than 20 of us. Info is below. Yes your voice matters…..Spread the word.
——————————————————————
See Friends For Fullerton’s Future http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/ for more info.
There’s another rally in front of the Fullerton police station on Saturday to
seek justice for the police beating of Kelly Thomas. I’ll bet we will have upwards of 1,000 participants this time. See you there.
Kelly Thomas Memorial Rally and Protest
Saturday, August 6 · 9:00am – 3:00pm
Fullerton Police Department, 237 W Commonwealth Ave, Fullerton, CA
Theo writes a good article, Mike R. does research, I couldn’t stand to read it all. I stopped after reading about the influential family connections of this officier. Makes me sick. Thank you, Theo and Mike for the info. which is needed in a free society.
“A defense similar to opinion is “fair comment on a matter of public interest”. If the mayor of a town is involved in a corruption scandal, expressing the opinion that you believe the allegations are true is not likely to support a cause of action for defamation.”
http://www.expertlaw.com/library/personal_injury/defamation.html#3
Man dies two days ago while in custody of Long Beach Police. Hospital staff pulled the man from the officer’s patrol car, and according to police, “although life-saving efforts were immediately initiated, an emergency room doctor pronounced the prisoner deceased shortly after arriving.”
http://www.presstelegram.com/breakingnews/ci_18627892
“Why can’t we get someone from Long Beach City Hall or PD, or Fullerton City Hall or PD to take Mr. Ruehle to court for repeatedly publishing in print an untruth (murder) about some of their employees which will do harm to those persons or their reputations, by tending to bring the target into ridicule, hatred, scorn or contempt of others?”
heres long beach’s renowned constitutional expert john greet ONCE AGAIN attempting to shut down our 1st amendment rights because he doesnt like the topic matter.
@ US: Unfortunately Mr. Ruehle’s periodic false, fraudulent and otherwise misleading rhetorical tactics often run *far* afield of the important goal of constant vigilance of government in general and policing in particular. If Mr. Ruehle would simply present the facts -and whatever opinions he has reasonably drawn from them- and then discuss those facts and his opinions with others in a respectful and courteous manner, that would be one thing. Unfortunately he rarely seems content to do that. This is unfortunate because he actually does the cause of constant vigilance more harm than good. Each time he speaks falsely, he undermines his own credibility and he does real damage to the very important messages he seeks to convey.
As to your question. I have had occasion to counsel officers who came under my supervision who I did not think were well-suited for a career in professional law enforcement. I have explained my perceptions to them, clearly documented those perceptions in their annual evaluations, and then did my best to work with and mentor tham so that they might improve in the areas I felt they were deficient. Suc was my responsibility for over 10 years as a professional law enforccement supervisor, and I always did my very best to meet that responsibility with every officer who was ever assigned to me.
@ Sally: Yes, Theo writes an excellent article. He is most certainly one of the best young journalists we have in our area. Mr. Ruehle is a very good researcher. All of his factual information is important to review, to consider, and to discuss in a reasonable, respectful, and courteous manner.
@ Mr. Ruehle: That recent death is a tragic one. If I am reading the story correctly, the LBPD officer was already at Men’s Central Jail with the prisoner when the arrestee “became ill.” I am curious as to why the Sheriff’s didn’t asume responsibility for the prisoner at that point. If I am not mistaken, the Central Jail does have medical personnel on hand or, at least, on call, just as LBPD’s own jail does. So why, if the LBPD officer was already at Central Jail, did they require *him* to transport the prisoner to a hospital to be medically evaluated? At the very least, it seems to me that the Central Jail should have called paramedics to make sure the person was medically stable, and then, if he was not, to have him transported in an ambulance (under the direct supervision of an EMT or paramedic), rather than in the back seat of a police car, where the officer could do nothing other than drive to the hospital.
@ howardx: I am neither renowned nor a constitutional expert, nor have I ever pretended to be either. I believe the officers that Mr. Ruehle persists in accusing of having committed murder have a reasonable cause for grievance and, like everyone else, have a right to a redress of that grievance. In advocating that someone take Mr. Ruehle to court to litigate that question, I am not seeking to “shut down” anyone’s…1st amendment rights.” I am simply seeking to see Mr. Ruehle held fully responsible for comments that I believe to be libelous. As near as I can tell I am one of maybe three people on these sites who regularly argue for a higher level of discourse. One that avoids falsehood, fraud, and otherwise intentionally misleading commentary. One that requires participants to offer objectively verifiable proof for the claims that they make and to not assert their unfounded opinions as proven and verified facts. No one else, here, seems to want to hold Mr. Ruehle accountable for his sometimes intellectually dishonest presentations. If my desiring to do so, somehow makes *me* the bad guy, well I suppose that’s just a label I am going to have to live with.
The Long Beach Police Officers Association (POA) Union SUED the City of Long Beach to allow Police Officers MORE LATITUDE to use their guns and also allow officers involved in a shooting to talk with their attorney or union representative before filing a police report
http://www.lawlink.com/research/caselevel3/60942
LBPD shoot unarmed man 5 times while he is on the ground. The victim in this case was unarmed and mentally ill
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:n4IbKZZkfIsJ:ourweekly.com/los-angeles/long-beach-police-shoot-unarmed-man+%22long+beach+police%22+%22excessive+force%22&cd=25&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com
Long Beach Police Officer Dominick Scaccia testified that he ran out of options to subdue the 147 pound man and was compelled by fear of his own life to use deadly force
Every testament uttered by Scaccia was refuted by eye-witnesses, other people of color from Sue’s neighborhood. There were graphic images and video which family attorney, Joe Barrett and associates from the Cochran Law firm complied over the course of a year.
Long Beach Police Department Officer reinstated after shooting unarmed man
http://www.gazettes.com/news/article_e88e423f-29bd-573e-bca0-dd9042a8da05.html
In December 2004, Officer David Garcia was fired by the Long Beach Police Department in the wake of a controversial shooting of an unarmed man, 22-year-old Keyante Reed. According to the reports, Garcia shot Reed once after a lengthy foot chase, he died the next day. The Los Angeles District Attorney’s office looked into the incident but cleared Garcia.
However, the review by the Long Beach Civil Service did not, saying that Garcia’s training called for him to take different steps. That commission called for Garcia’s dismissal, something supported by former LBPD Chief Anthony Batts.
Reed’s family sued the city in a case that was settled in the “six figure range,” according to City Attorney Shannon. Garcia sued for reinstatement, and had the support of the Long Beach Police Officers Association in that suit.
Today, Garcia is back on the force. We, Long Beach residents, once again paid out $ in the hundreds of thousands to the victim and re-hired the cop to go out on our streets and chase and shoot unarmed bad guys some more…
Not only breaking a window or carrying a hose nozzle will get you killed by the Long Beach Police Department, carrying a cell phone could also get you killed by the LBPD.
Here’s an article where a Long Beach Police officers fired 12 shots at an unarmed man running AWAY from them because they mistook a cell phone for a gun.
http://www.insidesocal.com/lbcrime/2010/03/long-beach-jury-rejects-claim-of-excessive-force-against-police-city.html
And what ever you do, don’t flip off a Long Beach Police Officer like this woman on a bus did, resulting in her being nearly beaten to death by the cops a la Fullerton cops.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBU3Wo5rXH4&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Here’s an on-TV account of the Long Beach Police Department shooting and killing a car chase suspect running away from them.
http://www.videolife.tk/video/s8GYEpqoBdo/Long-Beach-Police-officers-shoot-kill-suspect-on-live-TV.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBU3Wo5rXH4&NR=1&feature=fvwp
Seems to me the “victim” was inciting trouble by flipping off the police. A website named “HOOD NEWS”, a “witness” with pot leaves for earrings, bragging she posseses the same same law books as the police; the “victim” probably did something more serious than flipping-off the cops and which “HOOD NEWS” likely won’t detail.
“HOOD NEWS” looks like a predatory group looking to incite harsh police action against them and then reporting it as brutality.
Mr. Ruehle, in the link you provided here: http://www.lawlink.com/research/caselevel3/60942
The POA did *not* sue the City, as you claimed. The City appealed a ruling in favor of the POA, that had been rendered in a prior lawsuit. The prior decision in favor of the POA was affirmed (upheld) in the case you linked here, which the *City* initiated, and not the POA . In other words, two different judges in two separate cases found that the police department, as led by Chief Ussery at the time, erred when it changed its policy and, so its contract with its officers, without first meetinage and conferring with them, as they had initially agreed to do.
Also, this ruling does *not* appear to address officers’ “latitiude in using their guns”, as you also claimed.
” am simply seeking to see Mr. Ruehle held fully responsible for comments that I believe to be libelous”
you need to refresh your knowledge of what constitutes libel. if ruehle wasnt talking about the cops you wouldnt care a bit about what he was saying, your inability to allow your fellow citizens to vent about THEIR police force has been evident since the district days. this is more of the same.
howardx: Your asserion is not supported be the facts.In the past I have taken exception when Mr. Ruehle has sought to impugn non-police officer city employees as well as others who are not police employees at all. Further, the language I used in my initial comment concerning libel was copy and pasted directly from the legal definition for libel found in Black’s Law Dictionary. Perhaps you find that source for legal definitions to be insuifficient. If so, please cite a definition that differs significantly from the one I offered and let me know what source you chose to use. My intent in suggesting that some of Mr. Ruehle’s comments could be considered libelous is not to disallow “(my) fellow citizens to vent about THEIR police force” but, rather, an attempt to discourage potentially libelous comments.
Greet is such a putz. Looking forward to that law suit. Bring it on.
All actions have consequences, great or small, Mr. Ruehle. All words have meaning. May you one day actually have to suffer reasonable consequences for the many false, fraudulent, potentially libelous, and otherwise misleading things you so often say here and elsewhere.
I respectfully suggest that you spend a little more time reading the actual text of some of the court cases you so love to improperly cite in support of your various opinions. You do not seem to understand them very well.
Greet has been watching to many reruns of “True Grit.”
“You will be hearing from my lawyer Daggett.”
Yes, Mr. Ruehle, thank you for offering still more evidence of your apparent propensity to deal with others in a discourteous and disrespectful manner, just because they happen to disagree with you and because they sometimes demonstrate the abject temerity to ask you to actually prove some of the claims you make.
As always, thanks for the entertainment, guys!
Only for you, Ms. LB : )
Why fool around with a lawsuit and lawyers? This is wrong beach; just shoot the goddamn messenger. Give barney his bullet please andy. Afterwards aunt bee will have the hot bath and the “scrubber” waiting you uninformed oops I mean uniformed devil you.
Poor wrongbeach…unable to argue the issue in a civil, courteous, and respectful manner, he resorts to his habitual methods of sarcasm and epithet.
greet you are such a clown. I address you as you merit. You should thank me for “checking” you.
Poor wrongbeach…unable to argue the issue in a civil, courteous, and respectful manner, he resorts to his habitual methods of sarcasm and epithet.
Headline: Long Beach Police Officer Convicted of Statutory Rape of Minor
http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_18699869
The wife who is divorcing the Long Beach rapist cop read a statement aloud in court that said,” “You should be held to a higher standard for what you did because you abused your power of authority, being a highly respected police detective of the past 17 years.”
In my opinion, the ONLY reason this cop was charged and convicted is because the incident occurred in Upland where Long Beach City Hall and his police union buddies could not protect him.
Similar to how the police have covered up Long Beach Police Officer Jon Steinhasuer’s shooting of Ernest Raymond Rodriguez, the public never would have heard about this rape if it had occurred in Long Beach.
Mr. Ruehle’s opinion that the public never would have heard about this rape if it had occurred in Long Beach is completely unfounded.
He, himself, has repeatedly listed previous instances and allegations of rape that have occurred within LBPD’s jurisdiction by former LBPD employees and for which LBPD made arrests, conducted investigations and filed cases for prosecution.
Like so many other comments Mr. Ruehle posts concerning LBPD, this one has no foundation in fact.
And Long Beach Police Officer John B. Greet is one of those Police Union (POA) buddies who backs every Long Beach Police officer no matter what atrocious crime they are charged with.
This comment of Mr. Ruehle’s is also completely unfounded. The very first comment I offered on this article on The Patch back in May (where he has also now posted this current comment) should have sufficed to prove this: “These charges are tragic and, if true, acts that are utterly despicable when committed by anyone, let alone a person who had once sworn an oath to keep his “private life unsullied as an example to all.”
Perhaps that wasn’t sufficiently convincing for Mr. Ruehle. Here’s another from that same article: “Where we fail (to aspire to the ideals in the Law Enforcement Code of Ethics), it must be noted and dealt with swiftly and appropriately.”
And this also…”If these charges prove true, in my opinion there is no prison cell dark or dank enough in which the defendant should spend the rest of his natural life…let alone the “four years and four months” the PT is reporting to be possible upon conviction.”
Like so many other comments Mr. Ruehle posts about me, this one has no foundation in fact.
John Greet has been a Long Beach Cop so long that he thinks only his opinions are facts. Everyone elses opinion who doesn’t agree with Greet are to be ignored because Greet claims their’s “has no foundation in fact.”
Mr. Ruehle’s opinions, in this instance, are false because they have no foundation in fact. They have no foundation in fact, not because I claim that this is so, but because I *proved* that this is so.
To the best of my knowledge I have never suggested or encouraged anyone to ignore Mr. Ruehle’s opinions. In fact, I strongly encourage people to pay very close attention to them, so that they can better discern whether or not that have any factual foundation.
Greet, you are a liar. Do you want me to paste-in and link your comments requesting editors of various medias to censor my comments because you happen to disagree with my opinion?
Mr. Ruehle fails to perceive the difference between asking that editirs remove false and potentially libelous comments from their comment threads, and asking readers to ignore his opinions.
Comments that prove libelous could very well place the news service that allows them to remain at considerable risk of civil litigation. This is precisely why news services are very careful to include qualifiers such as “allegedly” or “reportedly” until such time as a person has actually been convicted of a crime.
Even though Mr. Ruehle doesn’t seem concerned about such a possibility -primarily because Mr. Ruehle seems concerned only about himself- I thought it wise to mention my concerns to those editors.
When Mr. Ruehle starts playing his copy-n-paste games again, perhaps he will also copy-n-paste the many times I have asked The Patch editors to do something to prevent anonymous people from being able to delete Mr. Ruehle’s comments from that site (something that unfortunately happens almost routinely there now) and the many times that I have stated that, while I do not agree with most of what Mr. Ruehle says, I firmly believe he has a right to say it.
In this last comment, as with so many others, Mr. Ruehle’s opinion has no basis in fact.
Greet above comment:
“I have NEVER suggested or encouraged anyone to ignore Mr. Ruehle’s opinions.”
Followed by Greet comment:
“Mr. Ruehle fails to perceive the difference between asking that editirs remove false and potentially libelous comments from their comment threads, and asking readers to ignore his opinions.”
Greet is such a lying hypocrite.
Here, as in so many other instances, we see that Mr. Ruehle cannot or will not answer for his own obviously false, fraudulent, and otherwise misleading commentary. All he can do is attempt to offer more insults and epithets.
Sad.
Greet said, “I have NEVER suggested or encouraged ANYONE to ignore Mr. Ruehle’s opinions.”
Yet, immediately afterwards Greet admits to asking media editors to remove my comments.
Apparently in Greet’s little make believe world he has created for himself, a media editor is not an ANYONE.
Mr. Ruehle fails to perceive the difference between asking that editors remove false and potentially libelous comments from their comment threads, and asking readers, or anyone else, to ignore his opinions.
Truly, were I asking editors to “ignore” his false and potentially libelous comments, I wouldn’t be seeking to draw attention to them and to ask them to consider removing them.
Twice now, Mr. Ruehle has claimed that I said: “I have NEVER suggested or encouraged anyone to ignore Mr. Ruehle’s opinions.”
Like so many other comments he posts on this site and others, this claim on his part is also false.
What I actually said was: “To the best of my knowledge I have never suggested or encouraged anyone to ignore Mr. Ruehle’s opinions. In fact, I strongly encourage people to pay very close attention to them, so that they can better discern whether or not that have any factual foundation.”
Here, as in so many other instances, we see that Mr. Ruehle cannot or will not answer for his own obviously false, fraudulent, and otherwise misleading commentary. All he can do is attempt to offer more insults and epithets.
Sad.
Did you know the Long Beach Police Department recently failed to terminate a police officer who TWICE (murder trial & rape trial) was found in a court of law to have lied in his original testimony resulting in two innocent people being sent to prison for over 20 years. In both cases, the real guilty people later confessed after DNA evidence pointed their direction. When the falsely imprisoned people were let out of prison many years later, they of course filed suit against Long Beach and settled for MULTI-$millions of our taxpayers money, something City Hall doesn’t want to talk about.
Meanwhile that same lying cop kept his job, paid for by us taxpayers. Apparently, the Long Beach Police department can violate with impunity the very laws they are hired to enforce.
Mr. Ruehle, can you cite the specific sections of the specific court cases in which you claim an LBPD officer “was found in a court of law to have lied in his original testimony resulting in two innocent people being sent to prison for over 20 years.”?
Great Koan of the day. (Koans are a paradoxical anecdote or riddle, used in Zen Buddhism to demonstrate the inadequacy of logical reasoning and to provoke enlightenment)
Greet: “Sad”
Sigh..what a pity. Nothing is gained and so very much lost whenever janis conducts herself this way.
After having become a police state, we are now a prison state. Police officers are held to a lower standard of behavior than the public they purportedly serve.
It is 40yrs of Prohibition that has brought us to this point. And by prohibition I mean, the corrupt ” war on drugs”. It promotes violence, fear, ignorance and lying on the part of police officers as well as citizens. After all, the first casualty of war is the truth. The truth is that every time one of these officer involved shootings or killings occurs, the publics trust in authority is compromised and eroded just a little more.
Mr. Greet, if you looked at the scene of Mr. Zerbys killing in Belmont Shore as I did, you would know that every single “fact” in the statement made by Chief McDonnel in his press conference on the day following the shooting, was false. In fact they were so out of whack with reality that I wondered if someone on the Chiefs staff was intentionally misinforming him. The distances between the shooters and their target, the number of shooters, the number of weapons and the rounds fired, and the time between the arrival of the officers on scene and the officers opening fire, it’s all wrong! This was an intoxicated unarmed citizen, sitting on a step, legs crossed in front of him, as people being detained are often told to do, waiting for a ride home. The lying about this began before his body was cold. And it continues to this day. Denialists doing what they do best.
I’ve had some training as a Peace Officer with the L.A. County Sheriffs Dept. and in the military. I have spent a lot of time defending the actions of police officers, but with each year that passes, it becomes more difficult. The credibility gap widens with every incident and lie told to conceal the truth about it. And of course there’s the fact that I’ve been told by more than one Long Beach police officer, “never trust the cops”.
The LBPD is poorly trained, poorly disciplined, poorly lead and out of control.
All public servants should be drug tested. Especially if they carry a firearm.
Who amongst them is immune to drug abuse problems? Who has easier access to drugs?
Hi porky,
You should avoid assumptions about what former crime scenes people have and have not visited.
You should also, avoid condemning police executives for providing initial and preliminary public information about an incident that may later change and be corrected as the various official investigations proceed. You seem to believe you have recalled the Chief’s press conference very well.
Do you also recall the Chief saying:
“In closing, I just want to say we want to be as open and transparent as possible. It takes time to confirm some of the information in these investigations and, to be able to verify some of the questions that you may have in these types of investigations…please understand that there’s a limited amount of information we can share at this time.”?
I am a bit confused as to how someone like yourself, who claims to have “had some training as a Peace Officer with the L.A. County Sheriffs Dept. and in the military” could arrive at definitive conclusions on your own about things like “(t)he distances between the shooters and their target, the number of shooters, the number of weapons and the rounds fired, and the time between the arrival of the officers on scene and the officers opening fire” all from visiting a crime scene long after the event has occurred and all of the evidence has been collected.
You state that “This was an intoxicated unarmed citizen, sitting on a step, legs crossed in front of him, as people being detained are often told to do, waiting for a ride home” as if all of this information was clearly known to the officers on the scene at the time, rather than information that was only developed long after the fact. Like so many other critics, here, your hindsight is, indeed, 20/20!
You persist in implying that the Chief lied. A lie is an intentional falsehood. Do you have any proof to support your implication that the Chief intentionally falsified anything? Could some of what he said later be proven inaccurate? Sure. The investigation was on-going and the information he reported upon was preliminary in nature. This does not mean he lied about anything, does it?
You said: “The LBPD is poorly trained, poorly disciplined, poorly lead and out of control.”
On what personal experience with LBPD basic academy and advanced officer training do you base this claim? On what personal experience with LBPD disciplinary policies, practices, and procedures do you base this claim? On what personal experience with members of LBPD leadership do you base this claim? Do you have any personal experiences in these areas, porky, or are you simply relying upon often extremely biased local media reports?
We agree on one thing. All public servants should be drug tested. Especially if they carry a firearm. I would go so far as to say that they should be drug tested randomly, and often.
“He then began to shoot Rodriguez several times and Rodriguez immediately fell down into a gutter. (D. Irizarry Dep., 2). At no point did
Steinhauser warn Rodriguez of his intent to shoot.”
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/cacdce/8:2010cv00271/466721/60
The jury trial for Rodriguez’s law suit against the city of Long Beach Police begins tomorrow.
http://www.cacd.uscourts.gov/cacd/MasterCal.nsf/f5070bd3154c602b8825724500737fa6/bdc048a2a5fae705882578f1007664f2/$FILE/0822DOC%20Amended.pdf
Officer Steinhauser testified in his deposition that “At no time did he believe that Rodriguez was intoxicated.”
That means the police lied when they told the media multiple times that Rodriguez was intoxicated.
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/cacdce/8:2010cv00271/466721/60
“Steinhauser then began to shoot Rodriguez several times and Rodriguez immediately fell down into a gutter. At no point did Steinhauser warn Rodriguez of his intent to shoot.
Both Steinhauser and Rodriguez agree that Rodriguez was shot three times, and that the bullets left nine separate bullet holes in his flesh.
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/cacdce/8:2010cv00271/466721/60
“In this case, witness testimony suggests, at the very least, that Rodriguez’a contact with the baton was not overtly threatening to Steinhauser, as many witnesses recounted that Plaintiff did not swing the baton towards Steinhauser.”
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/cacdce/8:2010cv00271/466721/60
Contrary to what Long Beach Police reported to the media, “Steinhauser admitted in his deposition that Rodriguez did NOT swing the baton at anyone.”
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/cacdce/8:2010cv00271/466721/60