KELLY THOMAS’ DAD PRESENTS MEDICAL RECORDS HE SAYS PROVE HIS SON WAS MURDERED BY FULLERTON POLICE
By Greater Long Beach
LOS ANGELES (Via OC Register)—The father of Kelly Thomas, the mentally ill transient who died five days after a July 5 altercation with six Fullerton police officers, displayed medical records Wednesday that he and his attorneys contend prove his son was effectively “murdered” by police assault.
Ron Thomas, a former Orange County Sheriff’s Deputy, and attorney Garo Mardirossian, presented the records at a press conference. They say they show the 37-year-old schizophrenic suffered a vicious barrage of blows at the hands of Fullerton police officers that broke his nose and cheekbone and ultimately led to brain death due to head trauma.
In addition to blows to the head and face, Thomas suffered injuries to his chest after being shocked with a Taser near his heart, according to Mardirossian. Thomas also was shocked with the Taser on his back twice and he ended up with two broken ribs, the lawyer said.
Mardirossian said the bones on Thomas’ face “didn’t break easily. They took a tremendous amount of pounding.”
Ron Thomas called his son’s death “aggravated murder.”
He told reporters at the news conference: “I’m very emotional. I’m very broke up but I need to continue this mission.”
Kelly Thomas was brain dead by the time he was taken to a local hospital after the incident that was witnessed by several bystanders, Mardirossian said. His family took him off life support July 10.
Mardirossian said police officers pounded on Thomas’ face with a Taser, and that injuries to his face and head caused a “tremendous amount” of internal bleeding that caused Thomas to choke on his own blood.
There were no narcotics or prescription medications in Kelly Thomas’ body at the time of the incident, Mardirossian said, calling into question a statement from an attorney for the officers that the transient had “violently struggled” with the officers.
The Orange County District Attorney’s Office and the FBI’s investigations are ongoing – probes that Mardirossian and Ron Thomas said are being needlessly drawn out because it’s clear how Kelly Thomas died.
The Orange County coroner has yet to release toxicology reports or an official cause of death.
The death of Kelly Thomas has caused a firestorm in Fullerton.
The police chief has taken a medical leave. There have been calls for the resignation of city officials and increasingly blunt demands from Ron Thomas that authorities file criminal charges against at least some of the officers.
All six officers involved in the incident have been put on paid administrative leave.
196 Comments
I very much sympathize with Mr. Thomas but I should think he, as well as his attorney, would want those investigating his son’s tragic death to be as meticulous as possible about their inquiries into the matter.
After all, the more evidence the various investigators uncover, the more potential proof Thomas will have to present to a civil jury in the wrongful death suit they have filed.
There will be nothing “clear” about what truly caused Thomas’ death until the coroner’s official report makes it so. If Mr. Thomas is so certain of the true cause of his son’s death then he should be willing to await the coroner’s official report and welcome its findings, not seek to preempt them by releasing his deceased son’s medical records before the coroner can complete his own investigation.
On another note, I am so glad Mr. Thomas is keeping his son’s death high in the public’s awareness. Many folks have extremely short attention spans and many thousands of mentally ill homeless people do not have families to advocate on their behalf, after their death, in this way.
Ron Thomas announced there will be a peaceful protest outside Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas’ office tomorrow from 11:00-2:00. Thursday.
What will they be protesting, did he say?
Here is a copy of the UCI’s Brain Death Declaration Form for Kelly Thomas
http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Kelly-Thomas-Medical-Records.pdf
…Brain Death caused by head trauma and assault
Oh, John Greet, every time I think your heart cannot get colder … Why don’t you go to the demonstration and ask Ron Thomas what he is protesting? I’ll go with you. I’d like to watch. (I know, you’ve got to work.)
Might multiple “knee drops” to the head and throat of Kelly Thomas by Fullerton cops have caused head trauma?
Murderers, under the color of authority.
Hi Dave, it really seemed a reasonable question.
If, as I suspect, they are protesting Kelly’s death, why do so outside the D.A.’s office? No one in the DA’s office caused Kelly’s death. No one who works for the county in any capacity had anything to do with it.
Wouldn’t it make more sense and be more effective to protest outside Fullerton PD, or Fullerton City Hall? It does t me. So it seems likewise reasonable to ask what the topic of the protest is…what grudge Mr. Thomas has against the DA…that he would stage his protest there…where, it must be assumed, they are working very hard to do what they are paid to do…conduct an investigation into Kelly’s death and goodness knows how many other county investigations that have nothing to do with Kelly at all.
Why would you assume my heart is cold or colder, simply because I asked what the topic of the protest might be? Don’t you ask questions when you seek information? Is your heart cold because you do so?
Yes, Dave, I happen to work for a living. would you prefer I did not? Does it annoy you that I have had decline two of your kind invitations for appearances in the middle of my normal work hours when I got only one day’s notice the first time and only two day’s notice, the second?
Sorry, Dave, perhaps you can schedule your work hours as YOU choose and on little notice but I cannot. Like most people, I actually have to ask permission to be somewhere other than my desk during my normal work hours and my boss usually requires a bit more notice than one or two days.
Wow, Dave, can your heart get any colder?
A Silly Sophomoric Attempt at Satirical Songwriting
Title: “A Song for (insert name here)” sung to the tune of “Happy Birthday”
Happy fornication under carnal knowledge to you…
Happy fornication under carnal knowledge to you…
Happy fornication under carnal knowledge to (insert name here)…
Happy fornication under carnal knowledge to you.
John B. Greet Murder Apologist.
Folks, I know this is going to come as a shock to some of you, but if any of these Fullerton officers are going to be charged with a crime (and if there exists probable cause to believe they committed a crime I want them charged, prosecuted, convicted, and punished for it) the coroner is first going to have to officially rule Thomas’ death as a *homicide.*
Mr. Thomas may not get that, his attorney may act as if he does not get that, but the rest of you really should try to. For the purposes of criminal proesuction, it doesn’t matter what seems obvious from pictures or medical records. all that matters is that the coroner make that official determination.
If the coroner does not rule Kelly’s death a homicide, the DA will not prosecute the officers for any crime related to his death. They may be charged with other crimes, e.g. assault under color of authority, or any number of civil rights-related violations, but they will not be charged, criminally, with either murder or manslaughter…the two crimes related to unlawfully taking another person’s life.
Once Kelly’s death is officially ruled a homicide, then the DA can begin to assess what criminal charges related to his death may be most appropriate.
Some seem so fixated on their anger over this tragic event that they refuse to accept that it is very possible that none of the Fullerton officers actually caused Kelly’s death. I do not think it is very probable, but it *is* prossible. The recently released medical records notwithstanding, the coroner could, possibly, reach a different conclusion. Again, I doubt this will happen, but it is possible.
That is the reason -the only reason- I am interested in waiting for the official coroner’s finding of “homicide.” I am not making excuses. I am not condoning officer misconduct. I am not ignoring the piss poor manner in which some on the Fullerton Council and the FPD Chief initially handled this tragic incident.
If any of the officers caused Kelly’s death, I very much want them criminally charged, prosecuted, convicted and punished. For these things to happen, it all most be proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, in a court of law.
If any of the officers caused Kelly’s death, I very much want them sued, held civilly liable, and punished. For these things to happen, it all most be proven, based upon a preponderence of the evidence, in a court of law.
Ok?
howardx you have proven yourself to be a liar, many times, on this site. So I am not particuarly concerned about whatever petulent epithets you might contrive.
“If the coroner does not rule Kelly’s death a homicide, the DA will not prosecute the officers for any crime related to his death”
Can you say with any certainty whether or not the coroner, a publicy elected official, is immune from political influences/pressures to spin the medical examiner’s findings in such a way that officially absolves the Fullerton police of any possible wrongdoing?
thats fine, im just trying to make “john b. greet murder apologist” the top result on google. good luck with the job search!
by the way does the university of phoenix offer ethics classes? you might look into that.
John B. Greet Murder Apologist
The father of Kelly Thomas referred to the Orange County District Attorney’s Office as “the enemy” on a radio program Tuesday, angry that the D.A. investigation has yet to reveal how and why his mentally ill son died after a physical altercation with Fullerton police two months ago.
“We are at war,” Ron Thomas said on an afternoon segment of KFI’s “The John & Ken Show.”
http://www.ocregister.com/news/thomas-315725-office-officers.html?plckFindCommentKey=CommentKey:9ad25313-7de6-4bdf-bc8e-2bdbfe3c0604
What probably doe ALSO bothers Dave W is that Greet comments on other websites about how one-sided Dave W’s radio program is and how Dave has made NO attempt to let law enforcement voice their side of the issue. Yet ex-LBPD officer John B. Greet conveniently failed to mention in his comments that Dave has asked LBPD, LBSU and even John Greet himself to be on his radio station, and they all refused.
if you do google “john b. greet” you find that he spends an inordinate amount of time posting on local blogs, almost always in threads regarding police misconduct, so many posts you have to wonder, is he doing this for a living or is he ripping off his current employer by spending all his time online? how many taxpayer dollars did he suck up while posting at the district?
@ DWR: I would say that the coroner, as an elected official, is no more immune from political influences than any other elected official. I guess the next question, then, is whether influencing this investigation in a manner other than which can be clearly supported by the medical evidence, would be in the coroner’s best political interests. I do not think it would.
Ruehle’s linked article seems to support my contention that death-related criminal charges hinge upon the coroner’s official findings:
“However, the D.A.’s office hasn’t received the official cause of death or toxicology reports from the Orange County Coroner’s Office, D.A. Chief of Staff Susan Schroeder said.” -and- “Schroeder said her office has turned over all pertinent medical reports to the Coroner’s Office “so they can take it into consideration when they make their findings.”
Ruehle’s article also indicates that the DA seems just as confused as I am about the reasonableness of a public protest outside their offices (rather than at FPD or Fullerton City Hall):
“It’s a little puzzling,” said Schroeder, referring to Thomas’ comments about the D.A.’s office. “In our conversations with him, he has always expressed confidence in what we are doing.”
Thanks, Ruehle.
“Yet ex-LBPD officer John B. Greet conveniently failed to mention in his comments that Dave has asked LBPD, LBSU and even John Greet himself to be on his radio station, and they all refused.”
of course they did, they dont control the questions on dave’s show and would undoubtedly end up looking like the authoritarian anti american goons that they are.
Ruehle said: “What probably doe ALSO bothers Dave W is that Greet comments on other websites about how one-sided Dave W’s radio program is and how Dave has made NO attempt to let law enforcement voice their side of the issue.”
This statement is false.
While I did initially state that Mr. W. made no attempts in that area, I also revised my comment in that regard and corrected the record to indicate that I was disappointed that he did not make more of an attempt in that area. I think Ruehle knows I revised my comment and corrected the record and, because of this, I think Ruehle has once again chosen to lie, rather than to state the provable truth.
Mr. W, and I have no problem communicating with one another directly and we have done so several times in the past several weeks. Quite unlike Ruehle, howrdx, and some others here, Mr. W. is a mature, courteous and respectful adult and is quite capable letting me know when something I have done or said bothers him.
It really is a shame that Ruehle cannot seem to keep himself from resorting to lies…intentional falsehoods…the way he does. They are not necessary and do not serve to further his various causes.
BTW, Ruehle and howardx, a never once “refused” to participate on Mr. W’s radio program. I unfortunately had to decline because he did not provide me with sufficient notice. I think there’s a difference. You seem to disagree. So be it.
does anyone here, ANYONE find john b. greet’s constant attempts to whitewash police misconduct mature, courteous or respectful?
If any of you are interested in how your Federal $$ are being spent?
Here’s Greet’s resume. http://www.resume.com/johngreet
… I do not have to have permission to leave My desk.
“BTW, Ruehle and howardx, a never once “refused” to participate on Mr. W’s radio program. I unfortunately had to decline because he did not provide me with sufficient notice.”
while im sure your job of gathering information on your fellow citizens keeps you busy im equally as sure that if you actually wanted to be on dave’s show you could have arranged something by now.
No wonder Greet was slamming me / claiming I was using an alias and wanted my full name, Spying on the citizens of the USA?
Hi, Mr. Greet. Watched the newscasts yesterday and saw your comment about it last night. Wanted to wait overnight to get my emotions in check and to think about what you said.
I will admit that I do respond to the Kelly Thomas beating on an emotional level. I am angry that this happened. I want the officers involved to be held accountable. I am concerned about a coverup and I will admit to a certain amount of paranoia that even the coroner’s office may be involved in trying to cover this up.
That being said, although I grit my teeth while I am typing this, I see the wisdom in most of what you are saying and recommending. I get it that certain facts will have to be established before specific charges can be brought against the officers. I also believe that these officers are well-versed in knowing the rules of evidence and, in a sense, have a “leg up” on most people who would be tried for a crime. Convicting them will require documented evidence and facts, not emotions.
I disagree with you regarding Ron Thomas’ making the death certificate public. He is trying to pressure the DA’s office into bringing charges against the officers. He is garnering public support in this because the OC DA appears to automatically side with the police whenever charges are brought against them. I made reference to this in the comments I made yesterday. Since the DA is in a position of authority, and generally held in respect by the public, don’t you think that showing the death certificate to the public provides validity to Ron Thomas’ claim that his son was beaten by the police? Won’t it be a little harder for the DA to assert that the police acted appropriately? In a sense Ron has made a preemptive strike on this. Even if the final results show that Kelly had used illegal drugs prior to his death it still doesn’t change the fact that he was severely beaten. Based on the medical evidence that has been made public thus far, I will have a hard time believing it if the coroner’s findings are inconclusive. What really makes me angry about this is that if this is the case, it will essentially mean that there will not be sufficient evidence to charge the police officers with murder, or involuntary manslaughter, won’t it? This is what makes me a little paranoid about the objectivity of the coroner’s office. Doesn’t the coroner’s office usually work closely with the DA and the police? Might not there be a bit of reason for doubt about objectivity?
Again, it’s hard for a lot of people to understand why the officers haven’t be charged with at least some charges, given the evidence that has been made available to the public thus far. I refer back to the example I listed yesterday–if this had been a fight outside a bar, wouldn’t the people involved already have been arrested and charged with something? I will say again that the public does not yet have all the facts. However, I would like to ask you a direct question about this and I realize that this puts you “on the spot”. Given your history in law enforcement, based solely on all of the information that has been made available to the public, isn’t there enough evidence to bring at least some charges against the police now while awaiting the final results?
I look forward to your reply.
Greet states, “While I did initially state that Mr. W. made no attempts in that area, I also revised my comment in that regard and corrected the record to indicate that I was disappointed that he did not make more of an attempt in that area.”
What Greet fails to mention is that he did not correct his lies until after I called him on it and provided links that showed he was a liar.
Contrary to what that back-stabbing, lying sack Greet says, NONE of my statements were false. How could they be false when Greet himself acknowledges he made the statements (“I did initially state”).
Furthermore, I do not recall seeing Greet’s retraction of his lie about Dave W’s radio show. Maybe Greet can link his “correction” as proof that he actually did make that retraction to his lie.
“No wonder Greet was slamming me / claiming I was using an alias and wanted my full name, Spying on the citizens of the USA?”
using john b. greet’s own words
“I currently serve as a contract Intelligence Analyst, assigned to US-DHS Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE). My duties include accessing various governmental and civilian computer databases to provide federal officers and agents with fresh location leads for criminal, fugitive, illegal aliens residing or working in my assigned region”
so we’ve established means and opportunity, the motive would be easy enough to guess…
Outdated information, howardx, and no longer accurate. Had you but had the courtesy to ask (as a mature and courteous adult would have) I would have been happy to have told you as much.
wont that “outdated and no longer accurate” information on your posted resume be confusing to any prospective employer? seems like it would.
Yes, howardx, that’s why that online resume’ no longer exists. Thank you very much for bringing it to my attention. Next time you might consider doing the mature, courteous, and respectful thing and simply asking me about it, rather than misusing the information you find in blatant attempts to impugn a person’s character.
From The Patch:
http://belmontshore.patch.com/articles/differing-account-of-lbpd-shooting-of-ismael-lopez
Mike Ruehle
9:28am on Friday, September 2, 2011
Dave W. has made it infinately and repeatedly clear to Greet that he has asked the Long Beach Police Department to participate on his show and they have REFUSED. Dave also made it clear he has asked department members from the Long Beach State Criminal Justice Department to be on his show and they also have REFUSED. Over and over again Greet has commented on Greater Long Beach for Dave to ask certain entities to be on his show in order to have a more “balanced perspective.” Each time Dave has commented back that he has done so and the entities have declined, as did Greet when he was asked by Dave W. to participate on the show and provide his perspective. I don’t believe it is true that Dave W. did not “make an effort” to provide a “balanced perspective.”
John B. Greet
9:41am on Friday, September 2, 2011
(13 minutes later)
Ruehle is correct. I should have said “without making *more of* an effort to offer some sort of balanced perspective.” I willingly correct the record to reflect greater accuracy. Thank you, Ruehle. Mr. W, has extended some invitations and some have been declined. Others, however, were not declined, the offering of written responses to written questions were simply not the sort of participation that Mr. W or KBeach management preferred, so in those cases it was THEY, and not LBPD, “REFUSED.” As for me, I am a busy fellow. To date I have received two invitations from Mr. W. The first was on one days notice and the second was on two days notice. My schedule is booked sometimes *months* in advance so when he offered, I was unfortunately not available. I have made constructive suggestions to secure other guests. He has argued that he, in turn, doesn’t have time to pursue them. Absent an in-studio guest, I think the host, serving as the moderator, should offer the balance. I don’t think Dave does enough of that and I have told him that as well. He asks for my opinions and I provide them. Mr. Ruehle doesn’t seem to like that. Boo hoo.
~~
There ya go, Ruehle. Care to acknowledge your falsehood and correct the record now?
it wouldnt do to let former/current/future employers know how you had blown your cover. perhaps you should retire the “john b. greet” persona at this point, your connections to the nations intelligence agencies having been confirmed and all…
Yes, howardx, that’s why that online resume’ no longer exists. Thank you very much for bringing it to my attention. Next time you might consider doing the mature, courteous, and respectful thing and simply asking me about it, rather than misusing the information you find in blatant attempts to impugn a person’s character.
How about we post the beginning comments where you stab Dave W in the back.
Nancy Wride
7:42pm on Thursday, September 1, 2011
I haven’t even read the links yet. No idea beyond the headline. I respect Dave W. but sounds like you aren’t a fan of this story, so I will look at why.
John B. Greet
9:06am on Friday, September 2, 2011
Nancy, I respect Mr. W also. A ton. And I tell him that personally and routinely. What I am not a fan of is clear bias in journalism. I think Mr. Cabaniss, Esq’s. bias is self evident and the fact that Mr. W. has chosen to spotlight his articles WITHOUT MAKING AN EFFORT to offer some sort of balanced perspective (other than those represented by my comments to the article) represents, I think, a degree of bias as well. It is Dave’s site and he can run it as he likes. So long as he (as the editor) chooses to allow my posted comments to stand, I will continue to offer them.
haha john b. greet murder apologist thinks people should respect him, you know, just because. he certainly does or says nothing around here that would EARN my respect, im sorry but blanket whitewashes of police misconduct up to and including murder, suspicious leaks to the press of opponents police records and daily torrents of prevarication do nothing towards EARNING my respect, which you apparently desperately crave considering how often you comment about it.
now finding out you work/worked for ICE-DHS is just icing on the cake, i knew you werent legit from the beginning.
In case you did not catch that link. This one is still good:
John B. Greet- Field Analyst at USIS currently assigned to a federal law enforcement agency. http://www.linkedin.com/pub/john-greet/22/450/279
According to Greet’s previously publicly viewable resume he got the job in January and is already looking for a new job.
from the profile
“My strenghts are in the fields of government administration and most law enforcement and security applications”
just dont ask him to spell
The Department of Homeland Security used social networking to determine whether applicants for citizenship are guilty of entering into “green card marriages.”
U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services documents obtained via a Freedom of Information Act request by the advocacy group Electronic Frontier Foundation show immigration agents were instructed on how to “friend” applicants for citizenship on social networks such as Facebook in order to observe their lives and determine if their marriages are in fact valid.
“Narcissistic tendencies in many people fuels a need to have a large group of ‘friends’ link to their pages and many of these people accept cyber-friends that they don’t even know,” the memo states. “This provides an excellent vantage point for [the Office of Fraud Detection and National Security] to observe the daily life of beneficiaries and petitioners who are suspected of fraudulent activities.”
EFF argues that while the government’s actions are legal, they do raise some concerns. Because it isn’t clear that agents must reveal their identities or jobs when friending users, it is possible agents may monitor more users than just the applicant for immigration. The group also criticized the memo’s characterization of social networking users.
“First the memo engages in armchair psychology by assuming a large friend network indicates ‘narcissistic tendencies.’ Second, and perhaps more disturbing, the memo assumes a user’s online profile always accurately reflects her offline life,” writes EFF staff attorney Jennifer Lynch.
“Unfortunately, this memo suggests there’s nothing to prevent an exaggerated, harmless or even out-of-date off-hand comment in a status update from quickly becoming the subject of a full citizenship investigation.”
http://raidreport.blogspot.com/2010/10/dhs-using-social-media-to-check-for.html
i would rethink greet’s friend request if i were you!
Yep and its perfectly legal for law “enforcement” to lie to you.
Kinda makes Greet a big hypocrite for calling people “liars” all the time.
soon he’ll be calling us liars for mentioning things off his resume, thinking that since he deleted it, it no longer exists.
Is this what Greet is talking about, that the people should wait until the official paperwork is completed to express their concern about a police issue?…. see this post…
I Know
August 15, 2011
As someone who worked for the City of Long Beach for over 30 years, I can tell you this – the corruption that has been exposed is NOTHING compared to what is really going on behind closed doors. When the PD begins to get FOIA notices, paperwork is deliberately destroyed. Officers such as Greet are told to monitor and harass anyone who starts nosing around. And it gets so much more worse than that. The City pays the media to run certain stories. The corruption of the PD is simply stunning and it penetrates into all other departments within the City.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:sKCjO_-Ur64J:greaterlongbeach.com/23/06/2011/outside-lb-police-awards-ceremony-a-small-group-protests-cop-violence+%22greater+long+beach%22+greet+I+am+not+a+police&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
I really didn’t think Ruehle would care to acknowledge the falsehood I accused him of and correct the record, even after I proved, as he requested, that what he said was, indeed, false.
This is but one difference between people with honor, and people without any. Another is the evidence seen in these latest comments concerning outdated and no longer accurate information about me found on various resume’ type websites.
None of that information has anything to do with the topic at hand or in any way addresses my comments here or the merits of my arguments.
An honorable person who could address the merits of my arguments, would would make an effort to do so. Ruehle, howardx, and janis seem unable or unwilling to do so. All they have are their petty personal attacks and offerings of insult.
What a shame.
“Another is the evidence seen in these latest comments concerning outdated and no longer accurate information about me found on various resume’ type websites.’
called it!
heres the thing greet, an HONORABLE person would have admitted they were a cop from the beginning, you posted on numerous stories about the LBPD at the district without disclosing that you were a member of said police force, you continued that omission until you were outed, only then did you admit you were an LBPD officer so pardon me if im a little sickened by your assertion that YOU are the honorable one here. you attempted to influence the public without disclosing your affiliation, im not sure what YOU call that but it sure isnt honorable.
Another reason for not joining the protests at Fullerton PD/Fullerton City Hall — they seem to be hijacked by Tea Party-inspired political figures who are making the argument not just that the Fullerton PD is badly or criminally managed, but that the Fullerton PD therefore should not exist in its current government agency form. It’s a callous and dishonest use of the very public death of a vulnerable young man. It’s appalling. It’s what has kept me from participating there.
Of course, if you LIKE dishonest political debate, Fullerton PD/City Hall might be the place to be.
Maybe Ron Thomas doesn’t like hanging out with such political ghouls. I know that I don’t. I admire the man’s savvy and courage.
howardx, you have proven yourself to be a liar and dishonorable. You will find that your aspersions do not carry much weight with those who are neither.
When asked, I have *never* denied either working, or having worked for, LBPD. Not once.
Back when I was still posting anonymously, Mr. W still was too, and I suppose we both felt we had good reasons for doing so at the time, just as you no doubt feel you still have good reasons for doing so now.
When I had my column at LBPOST.com I openly disclosed in my bio that I was a police officer and a city employee but that I did not presume to speak for either the department or the city and I still do not presume to do so.
That’s ok, howardx, you keep posting anonymously and trying to influence the public while presuming to take others to task for also once having done so. This is what is known as hypocracy, and just one more reason that you are dishonorable.
You, Ruehle, janis, and some others just keep deflecting from the issues and fixating upon me, personally. I am sure we will all accomplish so much more of a constructive and productive nature in that way.
What a shame.
“This is what is known as hypocracy”
are you calling me a hypocrat?
“When asked, I have *never* denied either working, or having worked for, LBPD. Not once.”
no one said differently, “when asked” you admitted you were LBPD. until then you let people think you were just another citizen commenting.
i wonder greet just how you know im posting anonymously anyways?
@ I Know: Can you cite any comments I made in the article you linked that are false? Is it that you simply disagree with the things I said there, or just that you dislike civil disagreements and divergent points of view?
US Blues respect your opinion, but hold judgement until you view this YouTube video showing the Doc Jones Mayor of Fullerton connect Adolf Hitler’s occupation of the Rhineland with a proposed water rate increase.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnN0UmkWPtU&feature=player_embedded
During one early justice for Kelly Thomas protest, the Mayor was cutting the ribbon on a new wing of the library a block away and ignored the handful of people peacefully demonstrating. The debate may be all over the place but certain facts about Fullerton’s government are not.
Yes, howardx, continue your disingenuous deflections from the issue at hand. I am sure we will accomplish much of a constructive nature through your doing so.
Please pardon my occasional misspellings. It is not that I cannot spell, but that I simply do not type well. My sincerest apologies.
I was, am, and always will be, “just another citizen commenting”, howardx. I represent no one but myself. and that has always been and always will be the case. I have never disclosed confidential law enforcement information in my comments (despite Ruehle’s constant lies to the contrary) and the one time I ever used my position to assist someone on these boards it was, ironically enough, to assist Ruehle himself, when he was making other false claims about LBPD personnel not having filed reports he had made.
I looked into the matter *on his behalf* and I was able to confirm for him that his reports were, indeed, on file, and had, indeed, been filed in a timely manner. He never bothered to acknowledge his false comments or to correct the record then, any more than he is willing to do so now.
Is it your assertion that howardx is your true and complete legal name? Really?
Continue your hypocritical, deceptive, and otherwise dishonorable tactics, howardx. Ruehle is in excellent company!
Sheesh, everyone. At the risk of drawing the ire of people commenting on this site, is it possible to stop the name calling on both sides and re-focus the discussion on justice for Kelly Thomas?
Good luck with that, JRB. I always try to start from a position of courtesy and respect, just as I did with my very first comment on this article, and you see the ugly turn the comments almost always take, and which posters almost always lead them there…
“I was, am, and always will be, “just another citizen commenting”, howardx. I represent no one but myself. and that has always been and always will be the case. I have never disclosed confidential law enforcement information in my comments (despite Ruehle’s constant lies to the contrary) and the one time I ever used my position to assist someone on these boards it was, ironically enough, to assist Ruehle himself, when he was making other false claims about LBPD personnel not having filed reports he had made.”
you are not “just another citizen” and i will never believe the rest of that bilge so you might as well quit trying to peddle it to me.
as far as im concerned greet “the issue at hand” is out of control police departments, you posting here pretending you were just another concerned citizen (who just happened to always support the police dept) is a integral part of that. we have a right to freely discuss these things without police surveillance or harassment whether you like it or not.
lets try something here regarding mike’s record being leaked to the press
did john b. greet have the means to commit the act?
yes as a sworn officer he would have had access to mike’s record.
did john b. greet have the opportunity to commit the act?
again, as a sworn officer AND being in a command position he would have had ample time to access mike’s record.
did john b. greet have motive to commit the act?
as you can see above john b. greet has had a long running dispute with mike that has been very adversarial at times, i think there is ample evidence of motive available.
boom call the grand jury
Yes, howardx, by all means, call the grand jury. And when they ask you for the same thing I have been asking you for…proof…what will you tell them?
If it is so very obvious that I did what you claim, then it should be a simple matter to prove it. An honorable person would be able to do so, howardx. Are you an honorable person?
Otherwise, an honorable person would withhold his accusations, knowing he could not possibly prove them. Are you an honorable person, howardx?
i expect a grand jury investigation could come up with the proof very easily, if someone cared to bring the case to them. demanding proof you know the department is never going to provide isnt brave or honorable, its cowardly.
“I looked into the matter *on his behalf* and I was able to confirm for him that his reports were, indeed, on file, and had, indeed, been filed in a timely manner.”
youve got your cover story all worked out.
if people want to believe im not “honorable” thats fine, i dont let the opinions of faceless strangers bother me the way you do.
Thank you, howardx, for acknowledging that you cannot offer proof of this false and repeated accusation and that you are therefore a dishonorable person.
Any chance you can get back to the topic at hand now? Are are you going to keep deflecting and offering baseless accusations and insults?
i’ll be glad to get back to the topic at hand
the 6 fullerton cops are murderers, anyone who says different is an apologist for sanctioned police murder
your move sparky
Greet, you again are confused. You have never done anything on my behalf, whether ironic or not. Years ago I commented on how the LBPD keeps crime stats down by simply not filing police reports. You told me to prove it. So I published four DR#s, from battery to bike theft, inwhich I was the complaintant and never heard back from the police. You claimed in your official Long Beach Police Officer capacity to have looked up the DR#s and told me the reports had indeed been filed. Now, you claim that was in my behalf.
When I questioned why those DR# crimes had not shown up in the crime statisics for my reporting district and I asked you for proof the DR#s had resulted in police reports, you never responded with that proof.
response “GREET”,”JOHN” real name? no matter “IF” a very popular ,often used “word” [stumbling mumbling block} of mr.greets “IF” they and “if”… discernment a word you should look up “greet” “recognition of the obvious” to us that havent been “polarized by attendance in the public school system,or the ingestion of fluoride in the drinking water those of us that haven’t been “dumbed down” there is no “innocent until proven guilty ” issue call it common sense,intuition whatever you like moron these sadistic cretons,pathologically compromised steroid-ed demons in human skin ,first line of offense for “new world order “are hand picked and cultured specifically because they process these personality traits the question you “fool” isnt if thet repeadedly smashed in his face with various implements over-tazered him drop kneeded his throat, murdered him thats obvious moron will they be protected by the establishment in order to set a precedence on “culling out ” the “unacceptable in society FULLERTON CITIZENS you do what ever it takes to remove the human virus infecting the police dept. city council members etc. “DAD….DAD….DAD… let those words haunt you!!!! and to the minions on the other side THERES MORE OF US THAN YOU!!! YOU PEICES OF HUMAN GARBAGE THE LORD OF THE UNIVERSE also carries a score card lucky for you punks our father in heaven instructs us “VENGEANCE IS MINE SAYITH THE LORD”!!!
“You claimed in your official Long Beach Police Officer capacity to have looked up the DR#s and told me the reports had indeed been filed. Now, you claim that was in my behalf.”
as i suspected. now we have greet caught in a lie about why he was accessing police reports related to mike. i suppose though, that he can provide proof that he isnt lying. of course he can.
howardx, you are no less entitled to your opinion than anyone else. Thank you for sharing it.
Ruehle, I think it is you who are confused, but at this point it really doesn’t matter. Your claim then (that the reports had never been filed) was false and I was able to prove to you that it was false. After I did so, you did not acknowledge your falsehood or attempt to correct the record, just as you refuse to do so now, even after I used your own words to prove this current falsehood of yours.
I think that’s enough deflection from you and and your comment pals, for today Ruehle. You and they have proven yourselves to be utterly without honor. This makes it so much easier to understand why you sometimes say the false and foolish things you do.
Be well.
” You and they have proven yourselves to be utterly without honor.”
all of a sudden we are posting in feudal japan or something…
Greet, please tell everyone how you “PROVED” to me those police reports had been filed. The way I remember it was I was supposed to take YOUR WORD for it. Sorry, but that is not proof in most people’s eyes.
I never acknowledged any falsehood because you did not respond to my request for proof. You did the SAME DISENGAGING then as you are doing now.
as i expected greet’s silence speaks louder than his many many many words, he has no objective proof that he accessed LBPD information on mike’s behalf, without objective proof what other conclusion can we come to but that greet is lying about working on mike’s behalf…
i just want objective here people objective truth
It has been over 2-months since Kelly Thomas’s death and the Coronor still has no clue of when the autopsy results will be released.
“I don’t have an exact time table,” said Sheriff-Coroner spokesman Jim Amormino late Wednesday. “I would say a short period of time.”
http://voiceofoc.org/oc_north/article_894346e4-da4b-11e0-8abd-001cc4c03286.html
Why, you ask, should the Orange County District Attorney NOT be trusted? Consider that upon Thomas’s death, OC District Attorney Tony Rackauckas immediately assigned DA Investigator Stan Berry to the high-profile Fullerton case.
It turns out Stan Berry is close personal friends with Fullerton Police Chief Michael Sellers. In fact, Sellers hired Berry as an investigator when Sellers was the Seal Beach Police Chief and Seller’s wife Rita Fraser-Sellers, are close personal friends with Berry and his wife, Kristen Berry, the Dispatch Supervisor in Seal Beach. They socialize together, vacation together and entertain each other in their respective homes.
Of all the DA investigators, OC District Attorney Tony Rackauckas chose Berry. And why would he do so other than to help cover for the police? Nothing like a huge conflict of interest in a very high-profile investigation.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4z8A8lvFZw4J:www.workingmannews.com/kellythomastimeline7282011.html+fullerton+police+chief+%22michael+sellers%22+%22stan+berry%22&cd=8&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
apparently it is utterly impossible to ask a police spokesperson a follow up question, the natural one would seem to be “why is it taking so long?” amy winehouse’s toxicology results were back in slightly less than a month so clearly an 8 week window doesnt reflect the time a test actually takes. this “just quote the police press release” style of journalism helps no one but the police.
I suppose that’s precisely why the FBI, State AG and an independent County Investigator are all involved in, or at least closely monitoring, the investigation, Ruehle. Given your concerns about the potential conflicts, I would think you would be happy about that. Yet you do not even mention it. All you seem able to do is to continue to impugn the OC DA. What else would you have the OC DA do at this point?
Why has there been no funeral or memorial service for Kelly Thomas? I am not sure who has possession of the body.
…And the powers that be cannot understand why the Thomas family and the public are so heartbroken and upset about all of this.
pointing out the truth of the cozy ties between the OC DA, his chosen investigator and the Fullerton PD chief are considered “impugning” by greet who cant understand why no one takes him seriously in these conversations.
howardx, you might try looking up the definition of impugn. Doing so may help you understand my very simple comment a little better.
i understand your comment perfectly, you’d rather the conflict of interest mike posted about wasnt discussed, got it.
“I think that’s enough deflection from you and and your comment pals, for today Ruehle. You and they have proven yourselves to be utterly without honor”
i think one of the marks of an honorable man is that he keeps his word.
howardx, you might try looking up the definition of deflection. Doing so may help you understand my very simple comment a little better.
i understood your comment perfectly
“im getting my ass kicked today so im taking my ball and going home”
Janis, I think that Ron Thomas has said that he is waiting until the police officers involved are brought to justice. Can’t remember if he said after they are arrested or after there is a trial. I think it was after there’s a trial.
Really, howardx, will you ever tire of your juvenile and counter-productive rhetorical antics? If you can’t hold your own with those of greater maturity and considerably more honor than yourself, why not go play your silly games elsewhere?
Mr. Greet, not sure if you’ve seen my post from earlier today. Are you able to answer the question at this time?
“Really, howardx, will you ever tire of your juvenile and counter-productive rhetorical antics?”
no.
“If you can’t hold your own with those of greater maturity and considerably more honor than yourself, why not go play your silly games elsewhere?”
laughable. unless by maturity you mean age.
you could always ignore me greet, oh wait youve proven youre incapable of that, numerous times actually. not too mention direct promises that you would never speak to me again. i actually am starting to feel stalked and harassed here by you, you harassed me endlessly on the district, then when that closed up shop you followed me here and continued your harassment and aspersions.
anybody who cares to google your name can see the campaign of harassment youve carried out against mike, following him around online, making sure everyone knows he has a “record” all very easily proven by a quick search so denial is futile.
Mr. Greet, I’m referring to the post I did this morning (prior to the one in which I asked if the discussion could re-focus).
sorry jrb, as you can see our fracas has been going on for quite a while.
Not unlike Fullerton Police, Long Beach Police shot John Cabrera 4-months ago because he was UNCOOPERATIVE. Cabrera was shot by police through a window from outside the house after police responded to a domestic violence call, claiming concern that house occupants MAY have a weapon. It turned out the occupants were unarmed, nor did they have a deadly hose nozzle.
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/05/long-beach-police-shot-and-injure-uncooperative-suspect.html
John Cabrera has announced his intent to sue the City of Long Beach for the Police Department’s overzelous response. Expect Mayor Foster to announce future excess oil revenue will be set aside to pay for expected future police killings.
http://www.pslweb.org/liberationnews/news/victims-sue-lbpd-press-conf.html
Next up, Police insist shooting jaywalkers, rather than citing them, is a more effective way to curb their bad behavior.
JRB: My apologies. I allowed myself to be distracted by people who were not deserving of my attention.
Your questions:
“Since the DA is in a position of authority, and generally held in respect by the public, don’t you think that showing the death certificate to the public provides validity to Ron Thomas’ claim that his son was beaten by the police?”
I do not fault Ron Thomas for his advocacy on behalf of his son. I applaud it. I simply suggest that releasing them in this way serves little constructive purpose and could, in fact, serve to impede the very investigation he seeks to facilitate.
“Won’t it be a little harder for the DA to assert that the police acted appropriately?”
I have no idea. Wouldn’t the official coroner’s findings serve the same purpose, based as they are, at least in part, upon those very same medical records?
“Based on the medical evidence that has been made public thus far, I will have a hard time believing it if the coroner’s findings are inconclusive. What really makes me angry about this is that if this is the case, it will essentially mean that there will not be sufficient evidence to charge the police officers with murder, or involuntary manslaughter, won’t it?”
I have no idea. It seems, to me that the medical record is the medical record. And that neither the coroner nor anyone else can alter it. These are documents based upon scientific inquiry and evaluation. The data is the data, the only difference may or may not be in how that data is interpreted, yes?
“Doesn’t the coroner’s office usually work closely with the DA and the police? Might not there be a bit of reason for doubt about objectivity?”
I have no idea. I have never met a coroner, only many, many assistants, over many, many years. Each one I have met was a consummate medical professional, interested in accurately determining the facts and following the evidence where it led.
“I refer back to the example I listed yesterday–if this had been a fight outside a bar, wouldn’t the people involved already have been arrested and charged with something?”
The people in your hypothetical bar fight were not in the process of doing their jobs as law enforcement officers. These officers were sent to investigate a call, they arrived, they investigated. Their attention was drawn to Kelly Thomas. They sought to interview him. He took exception and, as they say, the fight was on. It takes time to sort out fact from fiction in cases like these. Time that many here, do not want the investigators to take that time. If even one of these officers is innocent, he deserves that time. More importantly, Kelly Thomas deserves the full measure of that time, so that if even one of these officers is guilty, the evidence that is uncovered will prove it.
“Given your history in law enforcement, based solely on all of the information that has been made available to the public, isn’t there enough evidence to bring at least some charges against the police now while awaiting the final results?”
No, there is not.There will be sufficient evidence once every bit of it that can reasonably be collected, has been. That time is surely coming. But, to the best of my knowledge, that time has not yet come. Until it does, as difficult and painful as it may be for some, we owe it to the innocent to be patient, and trust that the three extra layers of independent investigative scrutiny that have been brought into play here, will be sufficient to assure a thorough, even meticulous, investigstion.
I hope I have addressed each of your questions to your satisfaction. Again, my sincere apologies for allowing myself to be distracted.
Mr. Greet, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.
You are correct in stating that the medical record is the record and it can’t be altered unless a notation is made. There can be differences in how data is interpreted, particularly if there are only subtle changes or differences. However, there are also many times in which there is clearly one interpretation of a finding. For instance, an x-ray of a shattered femur would be interpreted as a fracture by anyone qualified to be examining it. There may be different mechanisms that caused the fracture, but it is still a fracture nevertheless.
It is oftentimes necessary to know the context in which an injury occurrred to make sense of what is being seen. This is where we start getting into things like “the x-ray findings are not consistent with the stated mechanism of injury” and would lead to further questioning about what really happened.
In Kelly’s case, the coroner will review all medical records as well as autopsy and other test findings. My next question are not an attempt to get into hypothetical “what ifs” but are truly questions. Is it the coroner who will actually use the word “murder” in his/her report, or will the coroner just list the findings, such as “multiple fractures consistent with blunt force trauma” and state whether or not Kelly died as a result of the injuries he sustained? If it is the latter, who then makes the determination whether to call it murder vs manslaughter vs whatever else? Am I correct in assuming it will be the DA?
For God’s sake would someone please give the greet his pacifier and butt plug…hurry please!
wow.just wow.
I cannot believe I just read ALL these comments.
I feel so dirty now.
JRB, thank you very much for your continued demonstrations of maturity and civility.
As to your new questions:
“Is it the coroner who will actually use the word “murder” in his/her report, or will the coroner just list the findings, such as “multiple fractures consistent with blunt force trauma” and state whether or not Kelly died as a result of the injuries he sustained?”
I am admitted layperson in this area, however, as I understand the process, wherever possible the coroner identifies the direct and proximate cause(s) of death, any medical factors that may have been contributory, and will issue a ruling about whether or not the death was a homicide.
Because the term “murder” in this context is a legal term in criminal law, no coroner’s report in my experience has ever employed it. The coroner’s job is to determine whether or not a death was a homicide (death at the hands of another) and it is then up to prosecutors to determine whether or not the act(s) or omission(s) that caused the homicide, rise to the level of criminality.
The concern -that the DA in this case may not be impartial- is not lost upon me. I think it is a very valid concern and I think anytime such a concern exists and there is a reasonable basis for it, we should take affirmative steps to assure, as far as possible, the impartiality of the decision concerning whether or not to file criminal charges and, if so, which charges would be most appropriate.
I think such affirmative steps *have* been taken in this case. As I understand it, the FBI, State AG and an indpendent county investigator from the Office of Independent Review are all involved to some degree in this investigation. I just don’t know what else could have reasonably been done to address the valid concerns that have been raised about the DA’s potential impartiality, do you?
Perhaps the appointment of a special prosecutor? I really don’t know. What do you think?
As the evidence mounts …Greet’s suspension of disbelief -trust the government machinations begin to crumble. Did/Does anyone including Kelly Thomas’s doctors think Kelly Thomas died of natural causes? or at the hands of the Fullerton PD.
Greet earlier- “There will be nothing “clear” about what truly caused Thomas’ death until the coroner’s official report makes it so.”
Greet now- “The coroner’s job is to determine whether or not a death was a homicide (death at the hands of another) and it is then up to prosecutors to determine whether or not the act(s) or omission(s) that caused the homicide, rise to the level of criminality.”
Kelly Thomas’s Doctor’s Brain Death Declaration Form
http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Kelly-Thomas-Medical-Records.pdf
Thank you so much for your answer. The fact that the other agencies are involved in the investigation definitely helps to allay my concerns.
I think that the appointment of a special prosecutor is not a bad idea.
The public perception is that that OC DA is partial to the police. Given the level of emotion surrounding the case, I think it would be a good idea if he steps aside and lets a special prosecutor handle the case.
Janis’ snide tone and habitually selective excerpting of my comments to support her own erroneous conclusions does not serve any constructive purpose.
She and her comment pals Ruehle, howardx, and wrongbeach, could learn a lot from someone like JRB, who is able to disagree with someone and still remain civil, courteous and respectful in the process.
JRB, if a special prosecutor is what the majority of the residents in Fullerton desire, then that is precisely what they should have.
The municipal government in Fullerton belongs to the people, as represented by a majority of the voters and rightly constrained by the rule of law. The government there does not belong to the FBI, or the State AG, or the independent investigator, the DA, the Council, or the police chief.
I believe that those elected city officials in Fullerton who appear to have forgotten that truth should be recalled and those appointed officials who appear to have forgotten that should be fired.
Period.
John B. Greet wants us to have empathy towards the police officers who killed Kelly Thomas. How about some empathy towards the Kelly family!
September 7, 2011 John B. Greet
“What will they be protesting, did he (Ron Thomas) say?”
August 24 2011 John B. Greet:
“This is not, by any means, an attempt to condone police abuse or misconduct. It is merely an attempt to try to get some to extend the same sort of empathy toward our professional police officers, as they do toward some of the people which we sometimes ask those officers to contact and effectively manage.”
“She and her comment pals Ruehle, howardx, and wrongbeach,”
just another example of greet’s stalking and harassment. google “john b. greet ruehle” and see how he has stalked Mike Ruehle from local blog to local blog, at every stop making sure to mention that Mike has a DUI and providing a link. greet will no doubt deny this or ignore it entirely but ANYONE WITH A COMPUTER can see for themselves that greet has been on a multi year campaign of harassment. what justification does greet have to offer for this vendetta? the fact that mike said some uncomplimentary things about the LBPD? is the price for that having to put up with years of harassment from members of the force? when greet spends an inordinate amount of time defending LBPD and police in general is he really “just another citizen”? is he really “just speaking for himself”?
JRB, just so you know, its just a matter of time.
It always STARTS out this way with Greet. Several years ago, most of us has similar civil discussions with Long Beach Police Officer Greet when he first began commenting. I was one of those. That is, until his agenda and civics 101 BS wore us down. Ignoring him would work except he is like that pesky wood tick that just won’t die.
Your budding relationship with Greet is something we’ve all watched many, many times over the years with others. Each time, Greet has latched on to that one person, “could learn a lot from someone like JRB,” for a period of time until that person grew tired of Greet.
Don’t tell me I didn’t warn you.
Paranoid Greet thinks Janis, Ruehle, howardx and wrongbeach are all pals in a conspiracy against him (and the government machinery he represents) .
You could see it this way:
“Listen, kid, we’re all in it together. ” Harry Tuttle Brazil 1985
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brazil_%28film%29
If you go to the Belmont Shore Patch.com, you will find an entirely different group of commentors Greet is waging war with. And of course, Paranoid Greet also lumps them all together in his imagined conspiracy against him.
It used to be the same way on The District Weekly before it went out of business and was the same on the Press Telegram Topix before it switched to facebook. There are probably a few more I can point to.
There is no “war” Ruehle, at least not on my end. There is only a sincere attempt at reasonable, courteous, and civil discourse.
When you choose to post information that is false, fraudulent or otherwise misleading, here or elsewhere, I choose to call you on it. You don’t seem to like that very much. Reasonable people should ask themselves why.
When I prove that something you have said is a falsehood, whether intentional or otherwise -sometimes using your own words to do so- you consistently refuse to acknowledge your falsehood or make any attempt to correct the record. This is an entirely dishonest and dishonorable method of discourse on your part. You seem to disagree. Reasonable people should wonder why.
Whenever someone disagrees with you, you descend into your habitual snide demeanor and offerings of insult and rarely, if ever, attempt to address the merits of the person’s arguments. This is not a particularly mature or intellectual manner in which to discuss or debate with those with whom you happen to disagree. You cannot seem to see the truth of this. Reasonable people should ask themselves why that might be.
I am not stalking you, Ruehle, nor any of your other comment pals here or elsewhere. I am simply one of the few (there are, indeed, others) who are actually starting to hold you, and those others, accountable for the many false, fraudulent, and otherwise misleading things that you sometimes choose to say. I am just one of the few who require that you provide some proof when you make an accusation, and who point it out whenever you fail to do so.
I am one of the few who are no longer allowing you and your chat pals to monopolize these boards with your falsehoods, your offerings of insult, your baseless accusations, your tortuous twistings of the truth, your selective, out-of-context quotes, your innacurate and unreasonable interpretations of what others have said, and the many erroneous extrapolations you construct based from them.
I am one of the few who have decided to start offering some small amount of reasonable counterpoint to your incessant nonsense. You do not seem to like that very much.
Reasonable people should ask themselves why.
Does this sound like “reasonable people”.
Greet “I am one of the few who are no longer allowing you and your chat pals to monopolize these boards with your falsehoods, your offerings of insult, your baseless accusations, your tortuous twistings of the truth, your selective, out-of-context quotes, your innacurate and unreasonable interpretations of what others have said, and the many erroneous extrapolations you construct based from them.”
Instead Greet thinks he’s COMMENT BOARD POLICEMAN HOLDER OF ALL TRUTHS,FACTS, AND REASONABLE INTERPRETATIONS OF WHAT OTHERS HAVE SAID. Sorry buddy the Greater Long Beach button only says “Submit Comment” and until Dave W promotes you to the title of Comment Policeman I’ll say what ever I like.
“Reasonable people should ask themselves why.”
reasonable people should ask themselves WHY john b. greet thinks he has the right to stalk and harass critics of the LBPD.
anyone who googles “john b. greet ruehle” can see that greet has spent a HUGE amount of time following mike around attempting to smear and disparage, nay IMPUGN him and all greet has as an explanation is that he is a member of an elite group ” I am simply one of the few (there are, indeed, others) ” who have dedicated themselves to holding mike ruehle accountable…for something. why is this greet’s responsibility?
Isn’t it interesting that others critiquing my comments is to be deemed acceptable, yet my critiquing of there’s is not?
no comments on your years of stalking and harassment? all easily proven with a quick google? no comments on why you feel its your responsibility to hold mike ruehle “accountable” as you said?
“Fullerton Police Chief Michael Sellers has extended his medical leave of absence for another 30 days amid calls for criminal charges to be filed against six officers involved in the brutal beating of a homeless man.”
“Fullerton Police Sgt. Andrew Goodrich said the city received a letter requesting a 30-day extension from the chief’s doctor. Sellers earns $228,576 annually.”
“City Council members Bruce Whitaker and Sharon Quirk-Silva have called for Sellers to resign … information had been withheld from them, including a surveillance video that captured some of the struggle.”
“Mayor F. Richard Jones, along with Councilman Don Bankhead and Councilman Pat McKinley, are facing a recall campaign….The six officers involved remain on PAID administrative leave.”
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/09/fullerton-police-chief-homeless-beating.html
Will Fullerton Police Chief Sellars go out on permanent disability?
Take a look at this:
California asks Bell to investigate police disability pensions
State retirement system officials are examining whether former City Administrator Robert Rizzo used workers’ comp and disability pensions to pad payments to police chiefs who were being forced out.
Former Police Chief Randy Adams negotiated an agreement with former Bell… (Liz O. Baylen / Los Angeles Times)
May 12, 2011|By Jeff Gottlieb and Ruben Vives, Los Angeles Times
The state retirement system has asked Bell to investigate the validity of disability pensions given to at least 10 police officers — including four chiefs — that could bring them millions of dollars in extra benefits.
The California Public Employees Retirement System acted after The Times asked officials about allegations that Bell had used disability pensions and workers’ compensation settlements to boost payments to police chiefs as they were being forced from their jobs over the last decade.
Superior Court Judge James C. Chalfant ordered the LA County Sheriff’s Department to release the names of deputies involved in fatal shootings and pay the LA Times $173,000 in attorney’s fees regarding litigation of the California Public Records Act lawsuit filed by The Times in 2009. The newspaper had sued after the Sheriff’s department refused to release the names of deputies involved in three fatal shootings of unarmed men.
Judge Chalfant first ordered the names released in March of last year, but his ruling was appealed by the deputies’ union. The litigation came to an end in June when the state Supreme Court declined to hear the union’s final appeal.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-deputy-names-20110831,0,4734663.story
Long Beach CITY COUNCIL authorized City Attorney Bob Shannon to spend TAXPAYER’S money to likewise block the LA Times most recent California Public Records Act request seeking the names of the Long Beach Police officers who killed Douglas Zerby for holding a hose nozzle. Upon refusal to release the names, TAXPAYER’S money was again authorized by CITY COUNCIL to appeal the Judge’s order requiring the names to be released.
At a time when our CITY COUNCIL is closing libraries, and laying off cops and firemen for lack of funding, they are also spending TAXPAYER’S MONEY to prevent disclosure of the names of the police officers who killed Doug Zerby. Now, on top of that, MY TAXPAYER’S MONEY will be spent to reimburse the LA Times for their legal fees.
Why aren’t we recalling this CITY COUNCIL for its irresponsible spending of TAXPAYER’S MONEY like the folks in Fullerton?
@ howardx: Why do you seem to feel lthe need to respond each time I post something critical about Ruehle? Why do you feel it is your responsibility to try to defend him, when he has always proven quite capable of trying to defend himself? Why is it when I choose to respond to a Ruehle comment, it is mischaracterized as stalking, yet when you choose to respond to one of mine it is not? Why the persistent double-standard? Why should it be deemed acceptable for you and some others to persist in posting false, fraudulent, and otherwise misleading comments about many topics, yet it is not deemed acceptable for others to call you on this nonsense? Why does it seem to bother you so much that your many false, fraudulent and otherwise misleading comments are no longer going unchallenged or unanswered? Why do you and some others seem unable to address the merits of a person’s arguments, rather than resorting to discourtesy, rudness,, incivility, and offerngs of insult? Are you unable to compete in the arena of ideas as a mature adult? If so, why do you so rarely demonstrate an ability to do so?
why is it your responsibility to hold mike ruehle “accountable” why have you spent years stalking and harassing him? it aint going away greet, your decision to spend years harassing someone because they disagreed publicly with LBPD is going to haunt you, i am going to mention it daily here, no amount of greet jibber jabber and double talk is going to stop me.
the sooner you realize you dont control the conversation around here the better, if dave didnt like what we were saying he could very easily delete it, yet he doesnt. that should tell you something right there greet, the site OWNER (who is not you) doesnt appear to mind what we’re doing so i suggest that for once in your miserable life you SHUT YOUR PIEHOLE.
LOL…”comments pals.” That expression is simply hilarious.
I liked Greet’s “you and your chat pals”. Dean Martin had Jerry Lewis… Always wanted a comedic “foil”.
i like how greet simultaneously claims he has a group of people dedicated to holding mike ruehle “accountable” and then chastises us for being “comments pals”. what a hypocrat.
howardx, When someone chooses to hold Ruehle accountable for the things he says, why do you mischaracterize this as stalking? Is it stalking when you persistently take exception to my comments? If not, why not? If so, why is it acceptable when you engage in it?
Can you illustrate a single time that I have denounced a Ruehle comment as false that was not false? Can you demonstrate a single time when I have described a Ruehle comment as false, fraudulent, or otherwise misleading when it was not one or all of those things?
I do not “have a group,” howardx, nor did I ever claim that I did. That comment on your part was false. Can you prove that it was not?
BTW, howardx, the sooner you realize you dont control the conversation around here the better. As the publisher and editor, Dave has every right to delete any or all of my comments if he so chooses. So far he has not chosen to do so. I think it speaks well for him that even though he may not agree with everything you or I say, he still provides both of us with a forum on which to say it.
I suggest you and others try to fixate less upon me and my comments and try harder to avoid the many false, fraudulent, and otherwise misleading things that you sometimes choose to say.
John, did you just lose your job?
There are two notations on the Facebook Justice for Kelly Thomas site that Fullerton police are giving out citations to people who are honking in support of the protest there. One is from a person who just got the citation herself.
“I do not “have a group,” howardx, nor did I ever claim that I did. That comment on your part was false. Can you prove that it was not?”
“I am simply one of the few (there are, indeed, others)”
“I am one of the few who are no longer allowing you and your chat pals to monopolize these boards”
your move liar
its stalking because you have followed mike from local blog to local (again easily proven by googling “john d greet ruehle” in order to harass him. all there in google cache where you cant touch it asswipe.
Though this continues to be a travesty of justice, I fear that if both sides continue as they are, the outcome will only amount to building walls between the groups of people.
Justice may well be served some day, but if that is the only desire there will be a wake of broken relationships along the way.
Consider, for example. OJ Simpson’s trial. Regardless of the courts’ decisions, there is still no closure for how that trial went down.
Then, more recently, the trial of Casey Anthoney: again, justice was served, but there is still a great divide about that trial’s outcome.
My full opinion is in my post of this subject: http://www.passion-4-life.org/kelly-thomas/
Michael
howardx, you’re welcome to continue to obsess about why I and some others would very much like Ruehle and people like him to cease the intellectually dishonest manner in which they sometimes choose to comment. I’m not interested in playing your petty, juvenile games any longer.
@ rino2, to which job are you referring?
@ JRB, I sincerely hope that is not the case. These protests are necessary, and the community’s show of support even more so.
John B. Greet
September 7, 2011
What will they be protesting, did he say?
Janis provided a link to your resume that says you had a job from Jan to Sep, 2011 as a Contract Intellegence Analyst, assigned to a federal law enforcement agency. Then in LBReport, it reported two positions as Intellegence Analyst in the Office of Counter Terrorism as being axed.
Here is link to a You Tube video showing the Fullerton Police action going after drivers who honk to support protesters in front of the police station.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEIbMZxqJw8&feature=player_embedded#!
And this is what J.B.Greet does on GLB if you don’t respect his authority….
Janis comment August 29, 2011
Greet Hypocritcal Koan of the day:
LIAR’S CONSTRUCT OF LYING
Greet “I find it interesting that you are so quick to allege that others are liars, when you make such a habit of posting false, fraudulent and otherwise misleading information yourself. Perhaps you should consider moving out of that glass house of yours before you start casting so many stones.”
(Koans are a paradoxical anecdote or riddle, used in Zen Buddhism to demonstrate the inadequacy of logical reasoning and to provoke enlightenment)
**********************************************************************************
THE LIAR’S CONSTRUCT”
What he actually said:
John B. Greet July 18, 2011
“Nothing like hiding behind one’s anonymity and insulting others. I do sometimes still carry a gun, High, and quite lawfully and entirely responsibly. I think more people should do so. Don’t you?”
Greets false claim that Janis lied:
John B. Greet August 29 2011
“On 8/17, janis stated: “You are just a big bully who no longer carries a badge but still hides a gun carried “high” (your statement).
This statement is a lie. I am not a big bully, I often still carry a badge and I never made the statement she claimed. janis is therefore a liar.”
—————————————————————————————————–
What he actually said:
July 29 2011 John B. Greet
janis: If you are unhappy with my comments, you are free to choose to not read or comment upon them. If my own free participation is in any way infringing upon yours, then i would suggest you are ceding far too much of your own personal power to another. You might consider not doing so. You’ll probably be a lot happier in the long run.”
Greets false claim that Janis lied:
John B. Greet August 29 2011
“On 7/29, janis stated: “Now the big “bloviator” Greet knows what will make me happier?”
This inference was a lie. I never indicated that I knew what would make janis happier. janis is therefore a liar.”
————————————————————————————————–
What was said about Greets comments:
July 29 2011 LBCityGirl’s comment on Greet:
Wow. I cannot believe what I just read!
I am quite certain that I read John Greet say that people who have allegedly been victimized by the police do not have the right to talk to the press–he literally said these people should be gagged. Horrifying, what has our society become when the police believe they can do anything to civilians without any kind of accountability?”
Greets false claim that Janis lied:
August 29 2011 John B. Greet
On 8/3, janis stated: “But what appalls most of of us Greet is that according to your GRONIC logic, we must keep quiet to protect police who shot Zerby for some crime the cops thought he was committing.”
This inference was a lie. janis accused me of something I never said or implied and then chose to be “appalled” by her own fallacious construct. janis is therefore a liar.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:QFjzofCUgUUJ:greaterlongbeach.com/20/08/2011/to-stop-police-violence-the-perpetrators-must-be-punished+%22greater+long+beach%22+greet+rubber+hose&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a
notice that when greet is faced with the truth, rather than address the obvious evidence of his prevarication he decides he doesnt want to play anymore and ignores the issue. this is why greet gets treated the way he does around here.
remember greet that responding to this will be “playing my petty, juvenile games” indeed responding to anything i say from this point on will just point out yet again that you are a serial liar.
@ janis, you persist in your habit of posting comments of mine that you have artfully excerpted (to support your falsehoods, rather than to reflect the truth) and taken out of context. Those who have actually read the entirety of these exchanges will know their true context and also know how you have chopped them up to suit your own petty, childish and insulting purposes.
@ rino2, no. I have not been an LBPD employee since the end of last year. The budget cuts mentioned effect current LBPD employees.
John, are you still working/being paid as a Field Analyst with USIS for Contract Intelligence Analysis?
Greet accuses people of being liars then makes up excuses when his false accusations are shown to be fabrications. Of course we all know that police are trained to lie to the public “suspected” of committing crimes and its all perfectly legal. What crime do you “suspect” me of committing, not respecting your imaginary authority?
@ rino2, No. Mind if I ask how my current employment is pertinent to this discussion?
@ janis, You have not shown anything I have said to be a fabrication. Nor have any of my accusations been false or proven as such. I have never suspected you of any crime, nor ever said that I have. I have no more nor less authority than you or any other private citizen does. I do not require your respect, I simply wish you would sometimes demonstrate more respect for others who happen to have opinions that are different from yours. Continuing to refuse to do so is, of course, entirely your call.
Did you not say this on the same thread on the same day, and then later state that because of this quote that I was a liar? How exactly is this artfully taken out of context?
What he actually said:
July 29 2011 John B. Greet
janis: If you are unhappy with my comments, you are free to choose to not read or comment upon them. If my own free participation is in any way infringing upon yours, then i would suggest you are ceding far too much of your own personal power to another. You might consider not doing so. You’ll probably be a lot happier in the long run.”
Greets false claim that Janis lied:
John B. Greet August 29 2011
“On 7/29, janis stated: “Now the big “bloviator” Greet knows what will make me happier?”
This inference was a lie. I never indicated that I knew what would make janis happier. janis is therefore a liar
I don’t know, was your previous employment for the last 9 months related/pertinent to all the other almost full time comments you made on this and other area media?
John, are you trying to say something?
@ janis, yes I said both of those things on the same day. Neither are mutually exclusive and neither contradict one another. We’ve been well over all this before but you persist in dredging it up. Saying, as I did, that will “probably be happier in the long run” about something, is not the same as saying, which I did not, that I “know what will make you happier.” To claim, therefore, that I said the latter, when I never said is, is, I believe, an intentional falsehood…a lie…on your part. You seem to disagree, so be it. Let it go already.
@ rino2: It was never I who made a point to bring up my past or current employment in these comment threads. Ruehle and others have chosen to inject that information, time and time again, and I who responded to their comments.
Thus, I suppose, if you desire to know whether my previous employment for the last 9 months was related or pertinent to my comments here or elsewhere, you should ask those who chose to inject it into those various discussions.
I do not “try” to say anything, rino2. When I have something to say, I say it, as clearly and as directly as I can. I leave the insinuations an innuendos to others, here, who seem to love to play such rhetorical games.
If each of your statements are as you say (Greet) “Neither are mutually exclusive and neither contradict one another. ” then exactly how did I as you said (Greet) ” artfully excerpted (to support your falsehoods, rather than to reflect the truth) and taken out of context.” Your accusations that I am a liar are false.
Definition of PROBABLY
: insofar as seems reasonably true, factual, or to be expected : without much doubt
————————————————————-
9/11/2011 Greet: @ janis, yes I said both of those things on the same day. Neither are mutually exclusive and neither contradict one another. We’ve been well over all this before but you persist in dredging it up. Saying, as I did, that will “probably be happier in the long run” about something, is not the same as saying, which I did not, that I “know what will make you happier.” To claim, therefore, that I said the latter, when I never said is, is, I believe, an intentional falsehood…a lie…on your part. You seem to disagree, so be it. Let it go already.
————————————————————-
Janis
September 11, 2011
Did you not say this on the same thread on the same day, and then later state that because of this quote that I was a liar? How exactly is this artfully taken out of context?
What he actually said:
July 29 2011 John B. Greet
janis: If you are unhappy with my comments, you are free to choose to not read or comment upon them. If my own free participation is in any way infringing upon yours, then i would suggest you are ceding far too much of your own personal power to another. You might consider not doing so. You’ll probably be a lot happier in the long run.”
Greets false claim that Janis lied:
John B. Greet August 29 2011
“On 7/29, janis stated: “Now the big “bloviator” Greet knows what will make me happier?”
This inference was a lie. I never indicated that I knew what would make janis happier. janis is therefore a liar
@ janis, your July 29/August 29 example was not artfully excerpted to support your falsehoods, it simply does not prove what you claim that it proves.
The July 29/August 29 exchange was not the only one you posted here, though, was it? Please, janis, let this go. You and others routinely condemn me for critiquing Ruehle’s comments as well as your own, then turn right around and incessantly critique mine. You claim my past comments prove things that they do not. You artfully excerpt other comments and misrepresent them.
Can you please *try* to get back to the topic of THIS thread?
Used used the word “artfully”: Greet ” then exactly how did I as you said (Greet) ” artfully excerpted (to support your falsehoods, rather than to reflect the truth) and taken out of context.” Now you say you did not and want to change the subject. Same with your reply to rino2 changing the subject. Why don’t you answer rino2′s question?
September 11, 2011 rino2
I don’t know, was your previous employment for the last 9 months related/pertinent to all the other almost full time comments you made on this and other area media?
Correction “You used the word “artfully”. Why don’t you answer rino2′s question?
@ janis, I apologize but I have reached the end of my patience with you. Any reasonable person without an axe to grind can read the totality of what I have said and understand both what I said and what I meant in saying it.
I am not interested in bantering back and forth with you any further about either. It matters not a bit to you what I say because you are clearly not interested in truth but, rather, in berating someone with whom you happen to disagree.
I am interested in courteous and respectful dialog with others who will not resort to false, fraudulent, and otherwise misleading methods in an attempt to convince others of their points of view. People like you, Ruehle, howardx, wrongbeach, and some others here and other sites, seem utterly incapable of the sort of dialog I am interested in.
Continue with your own methods as you choose. I will no longer engage with you or your like-minded comment pals, so long as you choose to do so.
Greet you called me a liar and gave 3 instances which are erroneous in their claims. You are neither courteous or respectful and you are the one with no honor. You talk about honor but easily call people liars for no reason, given this behavior I think you are the most dishonest person on GLB.
Why won’t you answer Rino2′s question?
September 11, 2011 rino2
I don’t know, was your previous employment for the last 9 months related/pertinent to all the other almost full time comments you made on this and other area media?
rino2: Did you read the responses I provided to all three of the questions you asked me? If so, did you understand those responses? If not, how can I clarify them for you?
Here are Greet’s “responses” not answer. Answer the question.
@ rino2: It was never I who made a point to bring up my past or current employment in these comment threads. Ruehle and others have chosen to inject that information, time and time again, and I who responded to their comments.
Thus, I suppose, if you desire to know whether my previous employment for the last 9 months was related or pertinent to my comments here or elsewhere, you should ask those who chose to inject it into those various discussions.
I do not “try” to say anything, rino2. When I have something to say, I say it, as clearly and as directly as I can. I leave the insinuations an innuendos to others, here, who seem to love to play such rhetorical games.
John, I said “are you still working/being paid as a Field Analyst with USIS …”. Your response was NO. Is this correct?
“was your previous employment for the last 9 months related/pertinent to all the other almost full time comments you made on this and other area media?”
NOW people are asking the right questions!
@ rino2: Thank you (sir?) for acknowledging that I provided a response to your question in that regard. Yes, my response was correct. Again, I must, in turn, ask you, how my current employment is pertinent to this discussion?
John, why did you then continue, “Mind if I ask how my CURRENT employment is pertinent to the discussion.” Did you find a new job so quickly?
rino2: You seem uncomfortable with the manner in which I chose to phrase my question. I will re-phrase it: “Mind if I ask how my employment, or lack thereof, is pertinent to the discussion.”
Now, I have offered responses to each of your questions except the very last, which I am not going to answer because I do not believe that my employment, or lack thereof, is pertinent to this discussion.
Would you please be so kind as to answer mine?
Ok, was part of your previous job responsiblities to comment in some way on these media?
rino2: I have now answered several of your questions in this area and have not yet received the courtesy of a response to mine. Would you please be so kind as to answer my question, as I revised it?
No you provide a response not an answer. Answer the question.
rino2
September 12, 2011
Ok, was part of your previous job responsiblities to comment in some way on these media?
John, come on, you can’t really think that we will believe that your past history in law enforcement for the last 3 decades has no bearing on your point of view. By even considering this it brings to mind that you might have been in over your head with your last job as Intellegence Analyst.
rino2: You have changed the apparent premise of your question. You have moved *from* “are you still working/being paid as a Field Analyst with USIS …” (which I willingly answered) *to* a discussion of my “past history in law enforcement for the last 3 decades” and whether that has any “bearing on (my) point of view.”
I have often openly acknowledged that my long history as a law enforcer has a bearing on many of my points of view, just as many of the other experiences in my life do. This is true for all people, is it not?
If people seek to challenge my beliefs on that basis, then, if they are being completely fair, they must also challenge their own beliefs on that same basis, correct? The challenge I experience is that those who seem overly-critical of my background in the context of my beliefs, seem quite put out when someone applies the same standard to theirs.
This seems, to me, to be a very hypocritical approach to debate and discussion, particularly when those who are so critical of my views, have done nothing to prove that my comments are in any way false or inaccurate.
In other words, they do not deal with the “merits” of my arguments (or lack thereof), instead they fixate on my past history and seek to dismiss or denegrate my views solely on *that* basis. I submit that such an approach to debate is not intellectually sound.
Do you believe that it is?
I chose Plato as opposed to Aristotle. It’s like if one were to run into a pile of bullshit on the pavement, would one then need to smell it, weigh it and do a chemical analysis of it to know what it is?
not yet answered
“rino2
September 12, 2011
Ok, was part of your previous job responsiblities to comment in some way on these media?”
Here is the rino2 dialog and Greet’s responses (non-answers):
About USIS http://www.usis.com/About-Us.aspx
USIS specializes in providing information and security services to government agencies and commercial enterprises. Headquartered in Falls Church, Virginia, USIS delivers background screening and risk management solutions that not only protect national security, but also support and help empower decision-makers the world over.
________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________
rino2
John, did you just lose your job?
—————————————————————————————————
Greet
@ rino2, to which job are you referring?
—————————————————————————————————
rino2
Janis provided a link to your resume that says you had a job from Jan to Sep, 2011 as a Contract Intellegence Analyst, assigned to a federal law enforcement agency. Then in LBReport, it reported two positions as Intellegence Analyst in the Office of Counter Terrorism as being axed.
—————————————————————————————————
Greet
@ rino2, no. I have not been an LBPD employee since the end of last year. The budget cuts mentioned effect current LBPD employees.
—————————————————————————————————
rino2
John, are you still working/being paid as a Field Analyst with USIS for Contract Intelligence Analysis?
—————————————————————————————————
Greet
@ rino2, No. Mind if I ask how my current employment is pertinent to this discussion?
—————————————————————————————————
rino2
I don’t know, was your previous employment for the last 9 months related/pertinent to all the other almost full time comments you made on this and other area media?
John, are you trying to say something?
—————————————————————————————————–
Greet:
“@ rino2: It was never I who made a point to bring up my past or current employment in these comment threads. Ruehle and others have chosen to inject that information, time and time again, and I who responded to their comments.
Thus, I suppose, if you desire to know whether my previous employment for the last 9 months was related or pertinent to my comments here or elsewhere, you should ask those who chose to inject it into those various discussions.
I do not “try” to say anything, rino2. When I have something to say, I say it, as clearly and as directly as I can. I leave the insinuations an innuendos to others, here, who seem to love to play such rhetorical games.”
—————————————————————————————————
rino2
“John, I said “are you still working/being paid as a Field Analyst with USIS …”. Your response was NO. Is this correct?”
—————————————————————————————————–
Greet
“@ rino2, No. Mind if I ask how my current employment is pertinent to this discussion?”
Greet:
“rino2: Did you read the responses I provided to all three of the questions you asked me? If so, did you understand those responses? If not, how can I clarify them for you?”
—————————————————————————————————–
rino2
“John, I said “are you still working/being paid as a Field Analyst with USIS …”. Your response was NO. Is this correct?”
—————————————————————————————————
Greet
@ rino2: Thank you (sir?) for acknowledging that I provided a response to your question in that regard. Yes, my response was correct. Again, I must, in turn, ask you, how my current employment is pertinent to this discussion?
—————————————————————————————————
rino2
John, why did you then continue, “Mind if I ask how my CURRENT employment is pertinent to the discussion.” Did you find a new job so quickly?
—————————————————————————————————
John B. Greet
rino2: You seem uncomfortable with the manner in which I chose to phrase my question. I will re-phrase it: “Mind if I ask how my employment, or lack thereof, is pertinent to the discussion.”
Now, I have offered responses to each of your questions except the very last, which I am not going to answer because I do not believe that my employment, or lack thereof, is pertinent to this discussion.
Would you please be so kind as to answer mine?
—————————————————————————————————–
rino2
Ok, was part of your previous job responsiblities to comment in some way on these media?
—————————————————————————————————–
John B. Greet
rino2: I have now answered several of your questions in this area and have not yet received the courtesy of a response to mine. Would you please be so kind as to answer my question, as I revised it?
—————————————————————————————————–
rino2
John, come on, you can’t really think that we will believe that your past history in law enforcement for the last 3 decades has no bearing on your point of view. By even considering this it brings to mind that you might have been in over your head with your last job as Intellegence Analyst.
—————————————————————————————————–
Greet
rino2: You have changed the apparent premise of your question. You have moved *from* “are you still working/being paid as a Field Analyst with USIS …” (which I willingly answered) *to* a discussion of my “past history in law enforcement for the last 3 decades” and whether that has any “bearing on (my) point of view.”
I have often openly acknowledged that my long history as a law enforcer has a bearing on many of my points of view, just as many of the other experiences in my life do. This is true for all people, is it not?
If people seek to challenge my beliefs on that basis, then, if they are being completely fair, they must also challenge their own beliefs on that same basis, correct? The challenge I experience is that those who seem overly-critical of my background in the context of my beliefs, seem quite put out when someone applies the same standard to theirs.
This seems, to me, to be a very hypocritical approach to debate and discussion, particularly when those who are so critical of my views, have done nothing to prove that my comments are in any way false or inaccurate.
In other words, they do not deal with the “merits” of my arguments (or lack thereof), instead they fixate on my past history and seek to dismiss or denegrate my views solely on *that* basis. I submit that such an approach to debate is not intellectually sound.
Do you believe that it is?
Clarification: about USIS was not part of this dialog.
rino2: So, if I understand you correctly, despite that I have given you the courtesy of responding directly, honestly, and sincerely to several of *your* questions, you are not interested in extending the same courtesy to me. Instead, you have now chosen to descend into epithet and offerings of insult. Is that about right?
You seem to be implying (I cannot be certain because you will not extend the same courtesy of answering my direct question with a direct response) that my positions should be considered suspect solely because I have a background as a law enforcer. If that is to be the standard of suspicion we are going to apply, and if we are going to apply that standard fairly, then we must also deem Ruehle’s positions to be equally suspect due solely to his background as a convicted criminal, correct?
If so, can you explain why he and his comment pals here take such exception whenever I choose mention it?
If not, can you explain why not?
still not answered
“rino2
September 12, 2011
Ok, was part of your previous job responsiblities to comment in some way on these media?
John, just scrolling through the comments on this article, I find it’s Janis, howardx, Mike R, wrongbeach, LBCityGirl, Dave W, myself and others vs citizen John B Greet. Frankly, I stopped reading your comments as they are not interesting to me, but I do think they help to create some interesting counter comments from the other people.
Did Long Beach hire USIS who hired Greet as a “Intelligence Analyst in the Office of Counter Terrorism”, who then spent all of his time posting comments (which may or may not of been part of his job) which were in opposition to citizens views?
or was Greet hired by USIS to do some other job which may or may not of included posting comments on message boards?
rino2, I see, so your questions concerning my employment were not intended to elicit sincere responses (which they received) so as to further a constructive dialog. What a shame. You asked me direct questions for which I showed you the basic courtesy of providing direct responses, but you could not find it within you to demonstrate the same basic courtesy of a response in return.
And all to elicit comments from me that you now admit held no interest for you in the first place.
Such are the rhetorical games some folks choose to play here. I find that very sad, particularly because it adds nothing of substantive value to the actual topic of the article in question.
What a pity.
remaining unanswered
““rino2
September 12, 2011
Ok, was part of your previous job responsiblities to comment in some way on these media?”
“but you could not find it within you to demonstrate the same basic courtesy of a response in return.”
““rino2
September 12, 2011
Ok, was part of your previous job responsiblities to comment in some way on these media?
(with apologies to Chuck Berry)
Down in Southern California in the town of Long Beach
Where tourists once frolicked now there’s filthy concrete
Among the dirty asphalt, decay and debris
There lives a ex-cop named Johnny B. Greet …
Who never ever learned to read or write so well,
But he could bloviate just like ringing a bell.
(Chorus)
GO GO
GO JOHNNY GO GO
GO JOHNNY GO GO
GO JOHNNY GO GO
GO JOHNNY GO GO
JOHNNY B. GREET
He pollutes the internet with his lack of wit
All while sucking on the government tit.
On the local blogs there’s been quite a parade,
Of new enemies this fool has made.
People passing by they will stop and say,
“Oh my, that ex-cop can bloviate!”
(Chorus)
GO GO
GO JOHNNY GO
GO GO GO JOHNNY GO
GO GO GO JOHNNY GO
GO GO GO JOHNNY GO……..
GO………JOHNNY B. GREET
His mother told him “someday you will be a man,
And you wear a gun and a shiny badge.”
Many people now logging on from miles around
To read your windy musings when the sun goes down.
Like Charlie Sheen, your name could be in lights
Saying “Johnny B. Greet Tonight!”
(Chorus)
GO GO
GO JOHNNY GO GO
GO JOHNNY GO GO
GO JOHNNY GO GO
GO JOHNNY GO GO
JOHNNY B. GREET
remaining unanswered
““rino2
September 12, 2011
Ok, was part of your previous job responsiblities to comment in some way on these media?
There is an art to the building of suspense.
we all thought it was a myth, a legend, a fairy tale but apparently we have found the “holy grail” here, what to say to shut john b. greet up.
For the past several days, people have been asking the same questions over and over again as “mature and courteous adults,” as John B. Greet has requested. Yet, after doing so, Greet repeatedly ignores the questions asked or responds with a question himself of why they are asking the question.
Above Comment from John B. Greet on September 8, 2011:
“Outdated information, howardx, and no longer accurate. Had you but had the courtesy to ask (as a mature and courteous adult would have) I would have been happy to have told you as much.”
Above Comment from John B. Greet on September 8, 2011:
“Next time you might consider doing the mature, courteous, and respectful thing and simply asking me about it, rather than misusing the information you find in blatant attempts to impugn a person’s character.”
Greet makes it vitually impossible to respond to him in a mature and courteous manner because he insults them whether or not they follow his advice.
Greet is such a putz.
All Hail Dre, I suspect you have appropriately touched on a very sore subject and insecurity Greet has always had.
Appropriate comment from another post:
Chad Smith
September 12, 2011
I will be quite happy when these three things happen-
1. The authorities take the 6 murdering, poor excuses for police officers into custody for the murder of Kelly Thomas
2. A jury of their peers finds them all guilty
3. Ron Thomas stands up in open court during the vicitim’s impact statement and faces the cowards who killed his son
heck, make it four things……
4. Police apologist/testaliar/fraud John B. Greet takes his tired act to pacovilla.com, or some other police circle jerk that might actually care for his biased slant on things
Day 2:
remaining unanswered
““rino2
September 12, 2011
Ok, was part of your previous job responsiblities to comment in some way on these media?
Isn’t it interesting that my declining to answer a direct question is somehow deemed to be notable and unacceptable, yet others behaving in the same manner is not notable, or if noted, is deemed acceptable?
Such are the rhetorical games some folks choose to play here. I find that very sad, particularly because it adds nothing of substantive value to the actual topic of the article in question.
Day 2: Joy is lost.
remaining unanswered
““rino2
September 12, 2011
Ok, was part of your previous job responsiblities to comment in some way on these media?
John, your integrity is in question, regardless of how issues of the integrity of others are resolved.
Even for those who want to believe that you are not a paid troll, your nonresponsiveness is becoming deafening.
the topic of conversation has moved on from the article, we are now discussing you and the very real possibility that youve been posting here there and everywhere as, at best, a paid shill or at worst, youve been gathering information on local activists for DHS.
US Blues: My integrity is not in question by anyone who truly knows me or by anyone whose opinion I am particularly concerned about.
I am interested in extending and receiving fair, equal, civil, and courteous treatment. Those questioning me about matters that have nothing to do with this article’s topic are not interested in these things. I am therefore no longer inclined to entertain their questions or concerns.
what we’re interested in is whether you shopped us to DHS for insufficient deference to the local authorities.
Let me repeat Greet’s above comments he now has gone back on like he has done so many times before.
“Had you but had the courtesy to ask (as a mature and courteous adult would have) I would have been happy to have told you as much.”
“Next time you might consider doing the mature, courteous, and respectful thing and simply asking me about it, rather than misusing the information you find in blatant attempts to impugn a person’s character.”
Appropriate comment from another post:
Dave Wielenga
September 1, 2011
Honestly, Mr. Greet, in your posing of that single question you have distilled to its essence the extent to which basic human empathy (and let’s add common sense) can be exchanged for loyalty (and let’s add financial dependence) on the officious (and let’s add artificial) machinery of the state—which, ultimately, exists to preserve its own existence … and succeeds to the extent it can find people willing to make that trade. When Kelly Thomas was being relentlessly beaten and tased by six men who made that trade, as Kelly Thomas screamed “Dad! Dad! Dad!”—a plea for help made heartwrenching (and perhaps illustrative of his mental illness) because it revealed his dying belief in a hope we know did not exist— Kelly Thomas was screaming for you.
damn.
remaining unanswered
““rino2
September 12, 2011
Ok, was part of your previous job responsiblities to comment in some way on these media?
———————————-
“howardx
the topic of conversation has moved on from the article, we are now discussing you and the very real possibility that youve been posting here there and everywhere as, at best, a paid shill or at worst, youve been gathering information on local activists for DHS.”
howardx
rino2 “was your previous employment for the last 9 months related/pertinent to all the other almost full time comments you made on this and other area media?”
NOW people are asking the right questions!
John, at best you’re giving everyone who encounters this discussion — not just the posters here — the middle finger.
You’re telling everyone who encounters this that you don’t care how they should interpret your posts — in which case, you could start posting strings of random characters to get your points across, as a measure of your regard for public understanding on a web forum.
Like this:
asfd;lknbuu glkna gmk lkjdgi ehytcdl;onfoe !!
It will at least save you time.
US Blues: I am no longer interested in entertaining personal questions that are entirely immaterial to the topic at hand. Those who are asking them are not interested in a courteous or respectful dialog on the issues. They are simply seeking to impugn my character just because I have demonstrated the abject temerity to disagree with some of their views.
You are free to interpret my decision in this regard however you like.
“They are simply seeking to impugn my character just because I have demonstrated the abject temerity to disagree with some of their views”
that and we suspect you of posting here for the DHS.
The Fullerton Police killed Kelly Thomas on July 5th and the OC District Attorney has yet to file charges. Meanwhile, a man who threw his son off a boat in Newport Harbor on AUGUST 28th has been arrested and charged with a felony by the OC District Attorney.
The cops kill Kelly Thomas and there are no charges after 70 days. Yet, the SAME DA has been able to interview over 55 people aboard a crowded cruise ship and file felony charges against a NON-COP after 15 days.
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/boat-317051-briles-son.html
GO GO
GO JOHNNY GO GO
GO JOHNNY GO GO
GO JOHNNY GO GO
GO JOHNNY GO GO
JOHNNY B. GREET
remaining unanswered
““rino2
September 12, 2011
Ok, was part of your previous job responsiblities to comment in some way on these media?
———————————-
“howardx
the topic of conversation has moved on from the article, we are now discussing you and the very real possibility that youve been posting here there and everywhere as, at best, a paid shill or at worst, youve been gathering information on local activists for DHS.”
Attention “CHAT PALS who is the biggest conspiracy theorist on the GLB?
Greet: “They are simply seeking to impugn my character just because I have demonstrated the abject temerity to disagree with some of their views.”
JUST ANSWER THE ABOVE QUESTIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I quote, “I am interested in extending and receiving fair, equal, civil, and courteous treatment. Those questioning me about matters that have nothing to do with this article’s topic are not interested in these things.”
I’m kind of thinking this should go both ways.
remaining unanswered
Day 3 Greet
““rino2
September 12, 2011
Ok, was part of your previous job responsiblities to comment in some way on these media?
———————————-
“howardx
the topic of conversation has moved on from the article, we are now discussing you and the very real possibility that youve been posting here there and everywhere as, at best, a paid shill or at worst, youve been gathering information on local activists for DHS.”
As the judge explained to me the last time I was on jury, if you have enough circumstantial evidence, it can add up to proof beyond a shadow of a doubt. People go to jail based entirely on circumstantial evidence every day.
I had written a long post on how trolls destroy communication, but I doubted it would add much to this discussion.
I like Dave’s work. I hope he makes effective decisions, now and in the future, to defend his site and work against those who would like to destroy it.
Above comment from recently retired Long Beach Police Officer John B. Greet:
“You are free to interpret my decision in this regard however you like.”
I wonder if Greet was always this arrogant, or more likely, it was trained into him as a Long Beach Police Officer, to GRANT PERMISSION to others on how they are ALLOWED to think.
Saturday: Kelly Thomas Memorial Concert and Canned Food Drive
http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=239036459467031
“This Memorial Concert and Canned Food Drive being held in Kelly Thomas’ memory, is intended to raise community awareness of the growing homelessness in Orange County while helping out those who are in desperate need of such assistance. Our hearts go out to the Thomas family and while we condemn the tragic actions of a few, we continue to support our local policemen and women; who we hope will do everything in their power to ensure justice is served and that this never happens again in our community.”
My condolences to the Thomas family. I am truly sorry for your lost, for I was almost murdered in the same fashion, in the same Orange County California; just four months prior.
On March 9, 2011 several Police brutally ordered a K-9 to attack an unarmed, California Registered (RN). The California Highway Patrol (CHP) in Orange County then attempted to cover up the incident.
Malik King, a reportedly Licensed Vocational Nurse (LVN) since nineteen and RN since twenty three, is said to have initially attempted to steal a car. Later, it was found he was the owner of that Mercedes. What ensued next on the part of several officers goes well beyond the bounds of simply trying to subdue their suspect.
The several police officers ordered a police K-9 to attack him while he was still fastened in his seat-belt; tasered multiple times while the K-9 attacked for over one minute and thirty seconds, then hand cuffed, slammed to the concrete, hog tied, beat and kicked in the head until unconscious. He was then taken to jail, accused of multiple felonies, and had to pay $50,000 for bail.
Despite witnesses and the clear brutality of the beating, kicking, tasering, and ordered K-9 attack, California Highway Patrol allowed several officers to remain active and attempted a cover-up.
Violations of federal law occur when it can be shown that the force used was willfully “unreasonable” or “excessive”. By signing this petition you agree that “unreasonable” or “excessive force” was used on Malik A. King on March 9, 2011 in Orange County, California.
The beating of Mr. King is sickening and disturbing. The police involved in the beating and cover up must be brought to justice. Tell Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackauckas to thoroughly investigate and prosecute the officers involved in the brutality of Malik A. King,LVN,RN.
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/196/722/705/
Respectfully,
Malik King,LVN,RN