LET’S CALL AFTERMATH OF KILLING BY FULLERTON COPS WHAT IT IS: CORRUPTION
By CalWatchdog.com
[EDITOR'S NOTE: Steven Greenhut wrote this opinion piece for CalWatchdog.org but his reporting and perspective---which typically come from a conservative direction---have appeared in a variety of publications, from the Wall Street Journal to the Orange County Register, where he was deputy editor and columnist after joining the paper's editorial page staff in 1998. He is author of the 2004 book, "Abuse of Power: How the Government Misuses Eminent Domain." In 2005, Greenhut won the Institute for Justice’s Thomas Paine Award for his writing promoting freedom. He is a senior fellow at the Goldwater Institute in Phoenix.]
When police are accused of wrongdoing, their own agencies do everything they can to keep relevant information out of the public’s hands and to protect their own. The latest example comes in the brutal beating death of a homeless man named Kelly Thomas at the hands of as many as six Fullerton police. Published reports show that the Fullerton Police Department allowed the accused officers to see the official videotape so they could get their stories straight before filing the police report.
Let’s call this what it is—outright corruption. Can you imagine a police department allowing several accused non-police criminals to do this? This is from the Los Angeles Times story:
Fullerton’s acting police chief acknowledged Thursday that the department had allowed police officers involved in a deadly encounter with a homeless man to watch a video that captures the incident before writing their reports about it.
Acting Chief Kevin Hamilton said supervisors allowed the review so that the officers would have a chance to refresh their memory and write an accurate account of the incident involving Kelly Thomas.
The beating—it was caught by bystanders’ video, but the official police video was not released to the public and police confiscated videos from another bystander—turned Thomas’ face into pulp. Following the incident, police released a number of dishonest statements about the event, suggesting at one point that officers had broken bones in the scuffle.
Orange County District Attorney Tony Rackaukus is commenting on the tape in the media, but he won’t let the public see the tape. I’ve covered police use-of-force issues with this DA before and my sense is that it is highly unlikely that either this or any other Orange County DA would prosecute a police officer for excessive force. There’s no interest in doing so and the law is written in such a way that officers gain every conceivable benefit of the doubt.
Whenever the media point out the lack of accountability for abusive police officers, their union reps insist that police have to endure an enormous amount of scrutiny. There are indeed many different levels of internal oversight, but at every level these committees are dominated by other law enforcement. Police often brag about the way they “protect their own,” so what happened in Fullerton exemplifies that situation.
I recall when Tony Rackauckas released an investigation into the brutal jail beating death of John Chamberlain, allegedly by shot callers within the jail, while OC deputies claimed to be watching TV and sleeping on the job. Rackauckas’ report found that internal affairs investigators coached their fellow police officers into what to say so that they wouldn’t get in trouble.
Rackauckas deserves praise for producing that report, but no deputy was prosecuted, although a few left the office after the report and were able to receive their full pensions. In another instance, the DA prosecuted a police officer for repeatedly Tasering a handcuffed man in the back of a patrol car after he learned that police officers were joking about the torture in the locker room. But he had to drop the case after the remaining officers changed their stories in time for the trial.
OC Sheriff Sandra Hutchens, who as a young officer used deadly force in a controversial Lynwood incident, didn’t criticize her officers for their code of silence that protected a thug, but instead saved all her anger for the DA’s office for daring to use the term “code of silence,” even though it’s clear there is a code of silence in many instances in many law enforcement departments.
Actually, it’s because of attitudes such as those displayed by Hutchens that corruption persists. Similarly, when an acting chief of police allows six cops who could possibly be charged with a serious crime to watch an official video so they can get their stories straight, a clear signal is sent to other police in Fullerton and elsewhere: You can do awful things and we will help you and protect you.
That same video is off limits to the public. What does that say? Does that sound like the way things should operate in a free society?
Granted, the Times story pointed to California departments that found the Fullerton approach to be against policy, so there maybe some hope.
When local agencies are this disinterested in fairness, accountability, proper behavior and justice, the only choice is to bring in outside agencies. I’ve seen enough of these cases, though. Nothing will happen. The DA will say there was no crime—and Rackauckas already has hinted at this in his media appearances—because the cops didn’t intend to kill Thomas.
No one believes the cops set out to put a hit on 130-pound man. We just think they got carried away, behaved like thugs and killed him. Shouldn’t there be a penalty for this? If five of my friends and I got drunk and beat up a homeless man and ended up killing him, wouldn’t we at least face manslaughter charges?
Part of the problem is juries are so reluctant to convict police officers—even the rotten apples. DAs don’t want to expend political capital and lose these cases and DAs are dependent on police agencies for most of their trials.
California’s attorney general, Kamala Harris, was tarred as “soft on crime” during her campaign, so she won’t go near this case. She’s currently currying favor with police unions for political reasons. The police union chief who was in Orange County during the Chamberlain murder is now advising her on law enforcement matters. The FBI is conducting an investigation, supposedly, but this will drag on for months or years and nothing ultimately will happen.
The state’s Copley decision will protect the crucial information from the killer cops, who might end up getting promoted or, at the worst, move on to other departments. Police departments have a habit of promoting those accused of wrongdoing — it reminds the public that police policies and procedures are none of their damned business.
Meanwhile, Fullerton’s City Council majority—dominated by former police officials—will continue to criticize the protesters rather than the killers and make silly statements. Former Police Chief and current Councilman Pat McKinley even said on CNN that it’s unclear that the police action caused Thomas’ death. Kelly was walking around and appeared fine when police approached him. He was then beaten by them. But he no doubt died of natural causes. Does McKinley believe people are morons?
Meanwhile, it is impossible to get any sort of meaningful reform regarding police issues through the current California Legislature. Some people believe that the state’s Democrats have many lefty civil libertarians in their ranks, but that’s not true. Only a small number care about civil liberties. They are the cat’s paw for the state’s unions, which protect all of their members, even the bad ones. Democratic Gov. Gray Davis showed fellow Democrats that it’s easier to win by taking away the one issue that Republicans have successfully used—law and order.
Here is a column I wrote in 2007 about an effort to provide more openness about police brutality.
Fullerton residents are protesting the beating death and bringing it to the public’s attention. That’s the only approach that could succeed at this point. The politicians aren’t too concerned about government overreaches and abuses, but everything can change if the public gets agitated by the situation.
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52 Comments
Even when a good cop stands up against misconduct by his fellow officers, he is retaliated against (below link). It appears the Police Officer’s Union (POA) ONLY protects the BAD cops and not the GOOD cops.
http://www.longbeachcomber.com/story.aspx?artID=2676
Another example is the Lobstergate retaliation trial.
http://articles.latimes.com/2006/oct/20/local/me-briefs20.3
Allowing a police officer to review available still or video photography or audio recordings of incidents when filing their reports is not automatically illustrative of corruption. To assert that it is, is fallacious and irresponsible.
Any such recordings that exist are de-facto evidence to be used in court proceedings. They will be viewed and reviewed by *all* parties, including the judge and members of the jury over and over again. What the video depicts (and, sometimes more importantly, does not depict) will not change. So how is an officer’s review while writing his or her official report to any degree abusive?
Can we not also say that the officer’s review allowed his or report to more accuratley reflect the *facts* as depicted on the video? How is this to any degree detrimental to the pursuit of justice?
Assuming one or more of these officers are eventually charged with crimes, will the prosecutors not review this video when preparing their cases? Will they not allow their witnesses to review the video while they are preparing them to testify? In the susbsequent wrongful death suit, willl the plaintiff’s attorneys not review the video to prepare their cases and their own witnesses?
Are any of these uses de facto evidence of corruption? Then why must we leap to such a conclusion in the case of the arresting officers?
The assumption on the part of many is that, at the very least, these officers committed some degree of misconduct and, at most, committed manslaughter or murder related to Thomas’ death. But at this point this is only an assumption. Because many are starting from this (perhaps erroneous) assumption, however, it follows in their minds that everything the officers have done since is de facto evidence of some sort of corruption.
This may eventually prove true. But it has not been *proven* true yet.
If any degree of police misconduct is proven to be the proximate cause of Thomas’ death, then I hope those officers who committed it are prosecuted and, if convicted, punished to the fullest extent of the law. But that is a possibility that rests in a future none of us can *possibly* know.
Reviewing still photographs, or video and audio recordings during the production of official police reports is, indeed, common. It is typically done so that the reports can more accurately *reflect* the facts of an incident, not in an attempt to *obscure* or to *hide* those facts.
So says recently retired Long Beach Police Officer John B. Greet.
Yes, Mr. Ruehle, so say I. Thanks for repeating, for about the hundredth time now, that I am a recently retired Long Beach cop. Despite that your recurring intent in doing so is to attempt to cast doubt upon my credibility, all you truly accomplished here is to illustrate a good reason why my opinion on this matter should be given due and fair consideration. Thanks!
You have a criminal record, do you not? I think a person such as yourself who has a criminal record can also offer valuable insight into stories like these and that your insights about such incidents should also be given due and fair consideration. Do you have any insights about this story you would also care to share?
The DA said that they did not want to public witnesses to see the tape because it might affect their testimony.
The fundamental question is whether the 6 police officers who beat Kelly Thomas to death were/are suspected of wrong doing. Police can lie to suspects and suspects don’t get to see all the evidence when they are being questioned. A suspect is not allowed to see video to give an accurate version of their testimony. ….The only reason why some of this is coming out is that people inside of Fullerton PD are so outraged they are cooperating with the investigation.
No wonder the chief of police went out on a medical leave and the FBI are now involved.
Hi janis: Can you cite your source for your comment that “The DA said that they did not want to public witnesses to see the tape because it might affect their testimony.”?
Can you cite your source for your belief that “A suspect is not allowed to see video to give an accurate version of their testimony.”?
Thanks!
1. http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/bestoftv/2011/08/03/exp.nr.ca.kelly.thomas.beating.cnn
2. You second question is ambiguous. Depends on time frame and whether person has been charged (criminal discovery procedures). Prior to charging, the police can lie to a suspect and give him misinformation to coerce statements. As long as the case is open, someone who is not charged with a crime (or the public) cannot demand to see the video as part of a public records request.
hi janis: I’ll get back to you on 1. after viewing the video, thanks.
On 2. I thought your *statement* was ambiguous, that’s why it raised a question in my mind and why I chose to copy and paste what you wrote verbatim in my inquiry in an attempt to receive clarification.
In the last part of your response you said: “As long as the case is open, someone who is not charged with a crime (or the public) cannot demand to see the video as part of a public records request.” Would you agree that not all criminal suspects become criminal defendants?
If so, would you agree that a person who is neither a defendant, witness, or victim, would ever be in a position to offer “testimony” of any sort, whether it be “their version” or any other?
If so, would you agree that a person who is offering testimony, in the context of your comment would be a defendant and that all defendants have a right to review all of the evidence against them and that prosecutors have a legal responsibility to do so?
If so, would you agree that your statement that “A suspect is not allowed to see video to give an accurate version of their testimony” is inaccurate?
If so, would you care to revise your statement on that score?
No Greet I said SUSPECT not “defendant, witness or victim” I will not revise my comments based on your bullshit cop logic. The Fullerton cops are now SUSPECTS, are under investigation by the FBI and DA and were allowed by their own dept. to view the tape prior to giving a statement on what happened. In this situation the public got involved and spoke out before a full PD coverup could be set in place.
unpaid shill for the police state is turning into a full time job eh greet? put a sock in it douchebag.
hi janis: The insulting tone and rhetoric are not necessary or productive. Your resorting to them makes it appear as if you are taking my questions personally but that is not how they are intended.
I am very clear in what you said, but what you said is not particularly clear. This is why I am trying to ask you questions so that I might better understand what you may have meant by what you said.
You have now said: “The Fullerton cops are now SUSPECTS, are under investigation by the FBI and DA and were allowed by their own dept. to view the tape prior to giving a statement on what happened.”
Were the Fullerton officers considered to be “criminal suspects” or had criminal charges been filed against them at the time they reviewed the video to assist them in writing their police reports? If not, is it reasonable to object to their video review *then* based upon the fact that they may be considered criminal suspects *now*?
Ever notice how Greet changes the subject when he makes a fool of himself and then complains about insults?
Hi janis: If you are unwilling or unable to have a mature and reasonable conversation based upon the issues, it would be far more productive if you would simply admit to that, rather than continuing to deflect my simple and straightforward questions.
Ever notice how Greet changes the subject when he makes a fool of himself and then complains about insults? and then accuses me of deflection?
First he provides circular logic then begs the question.
Here’s *precisely* how this particular conversation went awry. This pattern is common when attempting to have a reasonable and mature conversation with someone who is not interested in factual discourse.
janis (excerpt): “A suspect is not allowed to see video to give an accurate version of their testimony.”
john: “Can you cite your source for your belief that “A suspect is not allowed to see video to give an accurate version of their testimony.”?
(note, this is a direct verbatim quote of the excerpt)
janis: “You second question is ambiguous. Depends on time frame and whether person has been charged (criminal discovery procedures). Prior to charging, the police can lie to a suspect and give him misinformation to coerce statements. As long as the case is open, someone who is not charged with a crime (or the public) cannot demand to see the video as part of a public records request.”
john: “I thought your *statement* was ambiguous, that’s why it raised a question in my mind and why I chose to copy and paste what you wrote verbatim in my inquiry in an attempt to receive clarification.
In the last part of your response you said: “As long as the case is open, someone who is not charged with a crime (or the public) cannot demand to see the video as part of a public records request.” Would you agree that not all criminal suspects become criminal defendants? If so, would you agree that a person who is neither a defendant, witness, or victim, would ever be in a position to offer “testimony” of any sort, whether it be “their version” or any other? If so, would you agree that a person who is offering testimony, in the context of your comment would be a defendant and that all defendants have a right to review all of the evidence against them and that prosecutors have a legal responsibility to do so? If so, would you agree that your statement that “A suspect is not allowed to see video to give an accurate version of their testimony” is inaccurate? If so, would you care to revise your statement on that score?”
janis: “No Greet I said SUSPECT not “defendant, witness or victim” I will not revise my comments based on your bullshit cop logic. The Fullerton cops are now SUSPECTS, are under investigation by the FBI and DA and were allowed by their own dept. to view the tape prior to giving a statement on what happened. In this situation the public got involved and spoke out before a full PD coverup could be set in place.”
john: “The insulting tone and rhetoric are not necessary or productive. Your resorting to them makes it appear as if you are taking my questions personally but that is not how they are intended. I am very clear in what you said, but what you said is not particularly clear. This is why I am trying to ask you questions so that I might better understand what you may have meant by what you said. You have now said: ‘The Fullerton cops are now SUSPECTS, are under investigation by the FBI and DA and were allowed by their own dept. to view the tape prior to giving a statement on what happened.’ Were the Fullerton officers considered to be ‘criminal suspects’ or had criminal charges been filed against them at the time they reviewed the video to assist them in writing their police reports? If not, is it reasonable to object to their video review *then* based upon the fact that they may be considered criminal suspects *now*?”
janis: “Ever notice how Greet changes the subject when he makes a fool of himself and then complains about insults?”
Ack!
Greet: “This pattern is common when attempting to have a reasonable and mature conversation with someone who is not interested in factual discourse.”
Here’s Greets pattern….Bla Bla Bla Bla , make a fool of himself, changes subject, starts asking irrelevant questions, makes a fool of himself, says he is only human and is still learning, Bla Bla Bla, complains of “offering of insults”, starts talking about factual discourse when he just contradicted himself or repeats what someone else has said as his own idea, changes subject, Bla Bla Bla, cannot form a logic construct, begs questions, calls Ruehle and his ilk liars, complains about insults, Bla Bla Bla Bla Bla, ACK!
Even when a good cop stands up against misconduct by his fellow officers, he is retaliated against (below link). It appears the Police Officer’s Union (POA) ONLY protects the BAD cops and not the GOOD cops. Read the article in this month’s Beachcomber for more information.
Don’t believe its far reaching corruption and retaliation, google “Lobstergate” and read about how many $millions of taxpayers money was used to pay off Long Beach Police Officers who were retaliated against by city hall for blowing the whistle on law breaking fellow Long Beach cops.
How will this ever improve when City Hall condones, encourages and pays for retaliation against police officer’s reporting misconduct by fellow officers?
Truly, janis, at some point you really should consider setting aside your insulting and confrontational demeanor. Nothing constructive or productive ever comes of it. I made a sincere attempt to approach you with courtesy and respect and ask specific questions that would help me to better understand your valid points. Rather than simply respond in like manner, and engage in a mature and intellectual discussion, you chose instead to become both defensive *and* offensive.
What a pity. Nothing is gained and so very much lost whenever you conduct yourself this way.
Greet, your badge and gun no longer give you the respect that you seem to demand from others.
I could care less about you or your pretend manners or ideals about public discourse. It is apparent from the arguments you make that you lack a formal education and have failed to learn on you own basic grammar, vocabulary, slang, popular culture, rules of logic, debating skills, and respect of other’s free speech.
Your reading comprehension sucks and you misunderstand even your own writing. You take verbs from one paragraph and use to defend something else you wrote in an other paragraph. 9 out of 10 times when you are backed into a corner on your bullshit arguments you then claim you have been insulted or claim that someone does not have facts or is lying. You do not seem to understand the difference between a fact or an opinion. The world is a complicated place and your mind is not capable of understanding this so you hide behind your pretend good manners. You are just a big bully who no longer carries a badge but still hides a gun carried “high” (your statement).
The opinions you have posted about the policing does the LBPD great disservice, as not all officers share your pedantic unenlightened misguided views.
What a pity. Nothing is gained and so very much lost whenever you conduct yourself this way.
Since janis couldn’t seem to hold her own in a dispassionate and intellectual discussion on the issues here, I’ll spell out the possible errors I perceive the comments and arguments she has offered:
~~
janis (excerpt): “A suspect is not allowed to see video to give an accurate version of their testimony.”
~~
Here, if janis actually meant what she said, she either misunderstands the term “suspect” or the term “testimony” or both. In the legal context (which is what janis was discussing), testimony is a legal term describing statements offered while under oath, most often in court. Suspects do not offer testimony in this context. Defendants, victims, and witnesses, offer testimony. In her statement, janis has implied that the Fullerton officers have been “allowed to see video to give an accurate version of their testimony.” But the officers have not yet offered any testimony in this context, nor have they as yet even been charged with any crime.
The Fullerton officers reviewed the video as a means of refreshing their recollection so that their reports might more accurately reflect the facts of the incident. This is not unlawful. This not improper. This is, in fact, a standard practice in police reporting and so long as it serves to help cops more accurately report the facts of the incident, I would think people like janis would be applauding, rather than critiquing, this practice.
To my knowledge it has not yet been definitively proven that the force Thomas was subjected to was the proximate cause of his death. The coroner may eventually reach that conclusion, but as far as I know this has not yet occurred.
Here is the definition of testimony. Making up your own definition/grammar = Gronics (Greet + Phonics). Greet you are an uneducated moron.
tes·ti·mo·ny
noun /ˈtestəˌmōnē/
testimonies, plural
A formal written or spoken statement, esp. one given in a court of law
Evidence or proof provided by the existence or appearance of something
– his blackened finger was testimony to the fact that he had played in pain
A public recounting of a religious conversion or experience
A solemn protest or declaration
janis again proves unable to make her point wihout resorting to an insulting and confrontational demeanor. Again this serves no constructive or productive purpose.
As I mentioned, three times, and which janis has conveniently overlooked, the context in which she used the term “testimony” was a legal one. In the legal context, testimony is a legal term describing statements offered while under oath, most often in court.
In that context, suspects who are not defendants, witnesses, or victims do not offer testimony, thus there would be no legal need or grounds to allow a suspect to “see video to give an accurate version of their testimony.”
If the officers were not suspects (and at the time they reviewed the video they were not and, in fact, have still not been formally charged with any crime…because it has not yet even been determined that a crime has, in fact, occurred.) then janis’ argument is fallacious.
janis will not admit this however. She is too busy attempting to change the context in which she originally commented.
Headline: Long Beach Police Officer Convicted of Statutory Rape of Minor
http://www.presstelegram.com/news/ci_18699869
The wife who is divorcing the Long Beach rapist cop read a statement aloud in court that said,” “You should be held to a higher standard for what you did because you abused your power of authority, being a highly respected police detective of the past 17 years.”
In my opinion, the only reason this cop was charged and convicted is because the incident occurred in Upland where his police union buddies could not protect him. The public never would have heard about this rape if it had occurred in Long Beach.
Mr. Ruehle’s opinion that the public never would have heard about this rape if it had occurred in Long Beach is completely unfounded.
He, himself, has repeatedly listed previous instances and allegations of rape that have occurred within LBPD’s jurisdiction by former LBPD employees and for which LBPD made arrests, conducted investigations and filed cases for prosecution.
Like so many other comments Mr. Ruehle posts concerning LBPD, this one has no foundation in fact.
No Greet the context of my use of the word “testimony” was not as you stated a ” legal one”. Someone can be a suspect but not be arrested. The Brown Act specifically excludes open police cases. So someone can be a suspect, not arrested (no discovery) and cannot demand to see evidence that the police are collecting on him.
My exact words were” Police can lie to suspects and suspects don’t get to see all the evidence when they are being questioned. A suspect is not allowed to see video to give an accurate version of their testimony.”
tes·ti·mo·ny
noun /ˈtestəˌmōnē/
testimonies, plural
A formal written or spoken statement, esp. one given in a court of law
Evidence or proof provided by the existence or appearance of something
– his blackened finger was testimony to the fact that he had played in pain
A public recounting of a religious conversion or experience
A solemn protest or declaration
——————
Definition of SUSPECT
: one that is suspected; especially : a person suspected of a crime
Greet Gronics in action: “As I mentioned, three times, and which janis has conveniently overlooked, the context in which she used the term “testimony” was a legal one. In the legal context, testimony is a legal term describing statements offered while under oath, most often in court.”
Oh and by the way WrongBeach is right you are a PUTZ!
I second that motion on Greet’s Putziness.
OOPs. Forgot to mention John B. Greet is a recently retired biased Long Beach Police Officer and known lobbyist for anything related to Councilman DeLong.
And I also forgot to mention Long Beach Police Officer John B. Greet is one of those Police Union (POA) buddies who backs every Long Beach Police officer no matter what atrocious crime they are charged with.
As mentioned, “janis will not admit this however. She is too busy attempting to change the context in which she originally commented.” -and- she “really should consider setting aside (her) insulting and confrontational demeanor. Nothing constructive or productive ever comes of it.
She will not change and I am not interested in continuing to attempt to have a meaningful, adult, intelligent discussion with such a person.
And Mr. Ruehle is so busy trying to copy and paste his own etty and childish responses that he cannot seem to keep them organized according to subject matter. The story about DeLong is over THERE, Mike. Try to keep up!
Citizen Journalist Quotes of the Day – Sarcastic Jokes
“I’m busy now. Can I ignore you some other time?”
“There are several people in this world that I find unbearably obnoxious, and you are all of them.”
“Don’t you realize that there are enough people to hate in the world already without you putting in so much effort to give us another?”
“You have an inferiority complex and it is fully justified.”
“Anyone who told you to be yourself couldn’t have given you any worse advice.”
“I don’t think you are a fool, but what’s my opinion compared to that of thousands of others.”
“I would have liked to insult you, but the sad truth is that you wouldn’t understand me.”
(Source:tensionnot.com)
Case in point on Mr. Ruehle: He posted a near identical response on the article about recently convicted sex offender and former LBPD officer Erik Alvarez over at The Patch:
“And Long Beach Police Officer John B. Greet is one of those Police Union (POA) buddies who backs every Long Beach Police officer no matter what atrocious crime they are charged with.”
This comment of his is also completely unfounded. The very first comment I offered on that Patch article back in May should have sufficed to prove this: “These charges are tragic and, if true, acts that are utterly despicable when committed by anyone, let alone a person who had once sworn an oath to keep his “private life unsullied as an example to all.”
Perhaps that wasn’t sufficiently convincing for Mr. Ruehle. Here’s another from this same article: “Where we fail (to aspire to the ideals in the Law Enforcement Code of Ethics), it must be noted and dealt with swiftly and appropriately.”
And this also…”If these charges prove true, in my opinion there is no prison cell dark or dank enough in which the defendant should spend the rest of his natural life…let alone the “four years and four months” the PT is reporting to be possible upon conviction.”
Like so many other comments Mr. Ruehle posts about me, this one concerning Alvarez has no foundation in fact.
Poor dumb Greet he thinks his opinions are facts. Greet- quoting yourself repeatedly doesn’t make you any less of an idiot or factually correct.
You complain about “offerings of insult” when people are just offering up their honest opinion of you.
Given the number of people who have posted negative comments about your rude behavior/calling people liars, lack of education, brown nosing of public officials, illogical windy musings, abuse of the English language and overall putz-y-ness there’s got to be something right about our opinions.
What a pity. Nothing is gained and so very much lost whenever janis conducts herself this way.
Greet, nothing is lost. No pity to be had. You are a useful idiot.
Dispassionate intellectualism and reasonable and courteous discourse are lost. I have immense and sincere pity for the unseemly and sometimes juvenile manner in which janis and some others here choose to address others who happen to disagree with or even to question them on virtually any matter. There is no productive or constructive purpose in it. Virtually every disagreement is met with scorn. Every sincere and respectful question met with ridicule. There are no idiots here, useful or otherwise.
There are only those who are capable of treating others with civility, respect, and courtesy…and there are those who are not. Janis and some others seem to have made their choice.
Sadly.
Greet Koan of the day (Koans are a paradoxical anecdote or riddle, used in Zen Buddhism to demonstrate the inadequacy of logical reasoning and to provoke enlightenment)
Greet “There are only those who are capable of treating others with civility, respect, and courtesy…and there are those who are not.”
Sigh..what a pity. Nothing is gained and so very much lost whenever janis conducts herself this way.
Dispassionate intellectualism and reasonable and courteous discourse are lost. I have immense and sincere pity for the unseemly and sometimes juvenile manner in which janis and some others here choose to address others who happen to disagree with or even to question them on virtually any matter. There is no productive or constructive purpose in it. Virtually every disagreement is met with scorn. Every sincere and respectful question met with ridicule. There are no idiots here, useful or otherwise.
There are only those who are capable of treating others with civility, respect, and courtesy…and there are those who are not. Janis and some others seem to have made their choice.
Sadly.
I’m not sad.
Greet, the little boy who spent so much time in the corner wearing a pointy hat who vowed one day he would carry a gun an get some respect:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CU8K_vopTls&feature=related
There are only those who are capable of treating others with civility, respect, and courtesy…and there are those who are not.
“All Hail Dre” and some others seem to have made their choice.
Did you know the Long Beach Police Department recently failed to terminate a police officer who TWICE (murder trial & rape trial) was found in a court of law to have lied in his original testimony resulting in two innocent people being sent to prison for over 20 years. In both cases, the real guilty people later confessed after DNA evidence pointed their direction. When the falsely imprisoned people were let out of prison many years later, they of course filed suit against Long Beach and settled for MULTI-$millions of our taxpayers money, something City Hall doesn’t want to talk about.
Meanwhile that same lying cop kept his job, paid for by us taxpayers. Apparently, the Long Beach Police department can violate with impunity the very laws they are hired to enforce.
Mr. Ruehle, can you cite the specific sections of the specific court cases in which you claim an LBPD officer “was found in a court of law to have lied in his original testimony resulting in two innocent people being sent to prison for over 20 years.”?
Fullerton Police Department is facing a new federal lawsuit from the guy who was wrongfully arrested for filming the police arrest his friend last year.
Good, I think citizens should be able to photograph, film, or otherwise record law enforcement activities. The privacy rights of those the police are contacting should be a reasonable concern and consideration, however.
Fullerton isn’t the only out of control police department. Don’t forget about the FOUR domestic violence cases against former Long Beach Police Chief Batts that were never prosecuted and were covered up by City Hall? Just more examples of the Long Beach Police Department being above the law.
http://willibys-corruptjustice.blogspot.com/2008/09/oakland-police-department.html
Mr. Ruehle seems to be unaware that re-opening such investigations are not within Chief McDonnell’s authority, if the statute of limitations have run out or if the alleged victim has declined to prosecute.
Given that the alleged victim in this case is currently a member of the US House of Representatives and certainly has the political juice to have these investigations re-opened if she truly wanted to, Mr. Ruehle might consider the possibility that, for whatever reason, Rep. Richardson chooses to not do so.
There is no alleging about it. Greet and every other so-called good cop in the department knew about the wife beatings and they ALL kept their mouths shut. They are ALL cowards and accomplices, including Greet, for not questioning the Police Chief’s and City Hall’s conduct. Though I had heard about it from cops for over a year, not a single one stepped forward until the Lobstergate fiasco.
It’s kinda like all the cops know and talk about a certain female city council staff members who has repeatedly been pulled over for DUIs and released. They all joke about it. Yet not a single one has the intestinal fortitude to do something about it until someone gets killed.
Mr. Ruehle fails to understand the term “alleged” in the context I have used it. In this context, the crimes he is mentioning are only alleged to have occurred because no one has ever proven them in court nor has anyone admitted to having ever committed them.
Mr. Ruehle also fails to understand that not everyone in any organization, police department or otherwise, knows everything about everything that everyone else is alleged to have done.
Mr. Ruehle prefers, instead, to believe the worst of every LBPD officer at the time and stoops to wrongfully accusing people he has never met of being “cowards and accomplices.”
No wonder Mr. Ruehle is not well-regarded in city government. It has nothing to do with his tireless and highly-appropriate scrutiny, nor with his laudible questioning of many city policies and procedures.
It is his unfortunate habit of presuming to play judge and jury in cases where he very often does not have all the facts, nor fully understand those facts he does have.
Mr. Ruehle could be a far greater voice for responsible reform in our local government if he would only learn to speak more responsibly himself.
Bottom Line: Murder is Murder. Killers behind the Badge “get away with it”
these 6 kilolers are being protected citizens are prosecuted.
The fundamentals of the Unites States Constitution is trampled under foot.
“We the People have No Rights when it comes to “Equat Treatment” when it is Us versus the Police. Every year that passes more and more unarmed citizens are being beaten and shot to death by these cowards.”
Police Serve and Protect themselves this execution is just another sad statistic and the Orange County District Attorney’s Office will NOT prosecute a killer who wears a badge.
Bottom Line: Murder is Murder. Killers behind the Badge “get away with it”
these 6 killers are being protected citizens are prosecuted.
The fundamentals of the Unites States Constitution is trampled under foot.
“We the People have No Rights when it comes to “Equat Treatment” when it is Us versus the Police. Every year that passes more and more unarmed citizens are being beaten and shot to death by these cowards.”
Police Serve and Protect themselves this execution is just another sad statistic and the Orange County District Attorney’s Office will NOT prosecute a killer who wears a badge.